Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 24-09-2007, 12:41   #1
Registered User
 
Amgine's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Vancouver BC
Posts: 1,384
Images: 1
Sarasota Bay Plans Mooring Field

Change afoot for Sarasota Bay sailors

A 114 acre mooring field with harbour master and onshore amenities, managed by a contractor, is planned by the City Commission. The plan is expected before the commission in October, and to open the first of the moorings early next year. Boaters will need to pay $13-18 per day to moor, and anchoring outside the mooring field will be restricted to 72 hours.

The Bay is home to many boats and boaters. Some are clearly not being maintained, even used by homeless people as squats. Some are lived on by conscientious boaters, such as Richard Cross who has lived aboard in the Bay for about 10 years and who attended recent commission meetings to argue for city intervention in the bay but against mandatory mooring leasing.


(An interesting side note: one argument put forth in favour of the mooring project is a reduction in boat sewage. According to the US EPA's National Estuary Program Coastal Condition Report for Sarasota Bay the primary concern in the bay is nitrogen, and the largest contributor to that is untreated storm run off. Sedimentary tests for organic carbon (a prime indicator of raw sewage) throughout the bay rated "good", and the highest concentrations of toxic and harmful substances were concentrated near tributary streams carrying runoff from further into the watershed. In short, there's no science supporting this argument.)
__________________

__________________
Amgine
Blog

On the internet, nobody knows you're a dog anchored in a coral atoll.
Amgine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-09-2007, 13:58   #2
Senior Cruiser
 
roverhi's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Kona, Hawaii, Carlsbad, CA
Boat: 1969 Pearson 35 #108 & 1976 Sabre 28
Posts: 6,003
Send a message via Yahoo to roverhi
$400 to $600 a month to hang on a mooring is robbery. Are they going to offer an olympic pool and 18 hole golf course as part of the shoreside amenities.

Looks to be just another attempt to drive cruisers out of Florida. Shouldn't call the kettle black, Hawaii has done by criminally neglecting boating needs here.

Aloha
Peter O.
__________________

__________________
roverhi is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 24-09-2007, 14:14   #3
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Winters - Out Cruising / Summers in the NC mountains
Boat: Brewer 42
Posts: 292
Images: 2
Anyone who has ever anchor in Sarasota Bay understands why this is being done. The derelict boats out number everything else 5 to 1. For those who are actually cruising, $13 - $18 per day is a bargain. Those who are looking for a free place to anchor their trash will have to go elsewhere. Well done Sarasota!!!!
__________________
rleslie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-09-2007, 14:57   #4
Senior Cruiser
 
Vasco's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Toronto
Boat: CS36Merlin, "La Belle Aurore" Ben393 "Breathless"
Posts: 7,130
Quote:
Originally Posted by rleslie View Post
For those who are actually cruising, $13 - $18 per day is a bargain.
If you've ever been cruising you will realize that not many can afford this. Nearly $600 a month for what? I know there is a problem with derelict boats but the authorities can deal with them if they wish. It's just that the authorities think this is an easy way to get rid of the problem rather than dealing with it within the existing laws and regulations.
__________________
Rick I
Toronto in summer, Bahamas in winter.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/beneteau393/
Vasco is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-09-2007, 15:35   #5
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Winters - Out Cruising / Summers in the NC mountains
Boat: Brewer 42
Posts: 292
Images: 2
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vasco View Post
If you've ever been cruising you will realize that not many can afford this. Nearly $600 a month for what? I know there is a problem with derelict boats but the authorities can deal with them if they wish. It's just that the authorities think this is an easy way to get rid of the problem rather than dealing with it within the existing laws and regulations.
During the twelve months that we have cruised, I have never met a cruiser that could not afford a few nights on a mooring ball. Perhaps our definition of cruising differs. Spending a full month on the same mooring ball is not cruising, it's living aboard.....cruising involves moving from place to place.

Vasco, I'm not trying to give you a hard time, but there seems to be a lot of people on this board that don't differentiate between: cruising, liveaboard and squating on public property. To me there is a huge difference. I support the right of cruisers to temporarily anchor as they move about. I do not believe that anyone has the right to claim an area in an anchorage as their own and anchor in that spot for extended periods....that is called squatting.

Sarasota is taking the proper steps to keep squatters out and allow cruisers to have a secure, inexpensive place to put their vessel temporarily. If owners decide to do so for an extended period, $600 per month is dirt cheap in Florida.
__________________
rleslie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-09-2007, 16:21   #6
cruiser

Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: No longer post here
Boat: Catalac Catamaran
Posts: 2,462
Guys, while I'd like to sidestep the liveaboard/cruising issue, I would like to comment on derelicts. I'm in Brevard County on the East Coast. With the new boating bill passed by the Florida Legislature last year, our county has hired contractors who are methodically removing every derelict in our 70 miles of intracoastal waterway. We do not have any mooring fields, nor was this a requirement to access state monies which have been set aside for this purpose.

As for enforcing a 72 hour anchor ban, By current Florida law this would seem to be illegal. There is a famous, and well documented test case down in Marco Island on this issue which the Municipality seems to be trying to squirm out of prosecuting as they've been advised that the local anchoring ban (after 72 hours) disagrees with the state law.

According to the State Law, Local Municipalities can only have jurisdiction within a state approved mooring field. They have no power whatsoever outside of them.
__________________
Tropic Cat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-09-2007, 18:58   #7
Registered User
 
Amgine's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Vancouver BC
Posts: 1,384
Images: 1
Not a question

IMO, this is not a question of "liveaboard" vs "cruiser". It's a question of who owns the view.

There is existing international law regarding all navigable waters, which is abrogated by Florida's laws. The US courts admiralty have refused to hear cases regarding this, effectively violating those international agreements, but giving the state some ability to regulate these national waters. The state, in turn has given municipalities certain limited areas which it may regulate anchoring and mooring.

The problem in Sarasota Bay is not the regulations, but the enforcement of it (as RickM pointed out.) Sarasota is not currently consistently enforcing its existing rules. Why should anyone assume they will be any more consistent in enforcing future regulations?

None of this gives municipalities either the ability or the right to decide who lives in a place, or how they gain entré to the region. The courts recognize the right of communities to, for example, haul away derelict parked cars. But they cannot require parking permits on county, state, or national roads.
__________________
Amgine
Blog

On the internet, nobody knows you're a dog anchored in a coral atoll.
Amgine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-09-2007, 19:39   #8
Registered User
 
sluissa's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Pensacola, FL, US
Boat: Westfield UK Kingfisher 20+ - Rabbit
Posts: 402
Images: 4
Send a message via AIM to sluissa
I have family that lives in Sarasota. I planned one day to take my boat (once I get one) down there and spend a few weeks or even a month visiting them. I'm a student though, I don't have a full time job, I can barely afford a boat as it is and I definitely couldn't afford 400-600 a month rent. (I could get an apartment for that.) In theory, I have nothing against mooring fields, as long as there is some anchorage available for people who don't want to or can't pay for it. Even if I have to move out a bit farther and it's less convenient I really wouldn't mind it. I might grumble a bit but I'm not gonna pitch a fit over it, especially if the money from the mooring field goes to pay for better enforcement of FAIR laws. But when people say it's this or nothing, I really don't feel like I'm welcome there, and in fact, it seems I'm not.

As for the sewage argument, that's been proven bunk time and time again, yet it's hard for people to say, "I don't mind them pooping in the water we swim in." even if it does practically no harm, and relatively nothing compared to what runs off from cities.
__________________
sluissa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-09-2007, 20:03   #9
cruiser

Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Tampa to New York
Boat: Morgan 33 OutIsland, Magic and 33' offshore scott design "Cutting Edge"
Posts: 1,594
I think all you have to do is move every 3 days. I often hook up jobs where I anchor as close as possible to the boat im working on and being federally registered I believe I have the right to anchor just about anywhere (within reason) to conduct my business. Attended flea market at sarasota yacht club last weekend, got some great deals from local cruisers. I think much of the problem comes from all the marinas that have been closing down for condos. There are a bunch of new junk or project boats introduced with each new closure. Look at the difference between key west and boot key. Bootkey is the most welcoming place for boaters Ive been to. Key west sucks of late and has run most cruisers off. I go near stock Island If I plan on visiting key west, theyve become so unfriendly to cruisers. Boot key welcomes you with a canvas bag full of goodies like coupons, charts ,guides etc... Free anchoring, dingy docks, bicycle racks, water spigots on seawall , cheap water taxi etc.... Boo to Key west, Hooray for boot key
__________________
forsailbyowner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-09-2007, 20:04   #10
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Winters - Out Cruising / Summers in the NC mountains
Boat: Brewer 42
Posts: 292
Images: 2
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amgine View Post
None of this gives municipalities either the ability or the right to decide who lives in a place, or how they gain entré to the region. The courts recognize the right of communities to, for example, haul away derelict parked cars. But they cannot require parking permits on county, state, or national roads.
WRONG!!!

Municipalities absolutely DO have the right and an obligation to control who lives on public land and that is precisely what our waterways are....public land. And they can/do enforce their right to control who parks on public land or in this case, who anchors.

You are free to travel our waterways and temporarily anchor, just as you are free to travel our highways and park in public parking aresa (and usually pay to do so). But absolutely nothing in our laws gives you the legal right to squatt on public land.

Squatter : to settle on or occupy property, esp. otherwise unoccupied property, without any title, right, or payment of rent.
__________________
rleslie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-09-2007, 20:24   #11
Registered User
 
Amgine's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Vancouver BC
Posts: 1,384
Images: 1
No, you're mistaken.

Municipalities have the right to regulate who parks, or anchors, on municipal land. The bay is not part of their jurisdiction.
__________________
Amgine
Blog

On the internet, nobody knows you're a dog anchored in a coral atoll.
Amgine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-09-2007, 20:29   #12
cruiser

Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Tampa to New York
Boat: Morgan 33 OutIsland, Magic and 33' offshore scott design "Cutting Edge"
Posts: 1,594
These fascist right wingers make illegal laws all the time down here in florida till someone takes them to court and corrects their errors.
__________________
forsailbyowner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-09-2007, 20:30   #13
Senior Cruiser
 
roverhi's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Kona, Hawaii, Carlsbad, CA
Boat: 1969 Pearson 35 #108 & 1976 Sabre 28
Posts: 6,003
Send a message via Yahoo to roverhi
Always thought I was a slow cruiser not a squatter. We habitually spent more than a month in an anchorage when we were out. Took us a while to thoroughly explore the surroundings. Yes, we could pull up the anchor at any time but cruising is not about being hassled by petty officials trying to protect the view of some rich anal sphinctre.

The proposed fees for moorings are out and out extortion. They have nothing to do with the reality of the cost which should be what public services are based on. Fees that high are simply about getting people to move on out of someone's view plane. Most real cruisers cannot afford mooring fees that high. They are not trust fund babies living off of an inexhaustable supply of coupons to clip. When we were out, almost everyone was living well below the poverty line. Remember, in Papeete, the difficulty for many of the cruisers to dig up the cash requirement of something around a $1,000 for each crew member. You only had to show the money so most of us pooled our money to show the officials when we had to renew our visa. $6,000 was more than we spent in a year, including boat maintenance.

Funny thing, only a few of the people who really had money were jerks but all the jerks were the ones with money. The most interesting people and those most dedicated to cruising were doing it on very tight budgets.

Aloha
Peter O.
__________________
roverhi is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 24-09-2007, 20:36   #14
Senior Cruiser
 
roverhi's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Kona, Hawaii, Carlsbad, CA
Boat: 1969 Pearson 35 #108 & 1976 Sabre 28
Posts: 6,003
Send a message via Yahoo to roverhi
BTW, fascists were not right wingers, they were socialists. Nazi was short for National Socialist Party. Only difference between them and communiststs is they didn't steal all the means of production like the communists and hard core socialists. They still believed in state control of the economy and the repression that goes with it. Most repressive laws in this country come out of some one trying to get the government to do what it shouldn't be doing. That's the mantra of the left, though the former Republican majority in congress lost sight of that.

Aloha
Peter O.
__________________
roverhi is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 25-09-2007, 03:35   #15
Moderator Emeritus
 
GordMay's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Thunder Bay, Ontario - 48-29N x 89-20W
Boat: (Cruiser Living On Dirt)
Posts: 31,573
Images: 240
Quote:
Originally Posted by roverhi View Post
BTW, fascists were not right wingers, they were socialists ...
Fascism is the antithesis of Socialism.

Fascism developed in opposition to Socialism and Communism. Mussolini completely rejected the Marxist concept of class struggle or the Marxist thesis that the working class must expropriate the means of production.
Thus, in 1923 Mussolini declared, in "Doctrine of Fascism":
“... Fascism [is] the complete opposite of ... Marxian Socialism, the materialist conception of history of human civilization can be explained simply through the conflict of interests among the various social groups and by the change and development in the means and instruments of production ...“

The social composition of Fascist movements have historically been small capitalists, low-level bureaucrats and the middle classes. Fascism also met with great success in rural areas, especially among farmers, peasants, and in the city, the lumpenproletariat. A key feature of fascism is that it uses it's mass movement to attack the organizations of the working class - parties of the left and trades unions.
__________________

__________________
Gord May
"If you didn't have the time or money to do it right in the first place, when will you get the time/$ to fix it?"



GordMay is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
mooring, sarasota

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
New Miami (Dinner Key) Mooring Field chuckr General Sailing Forum 32 29-10-2011 15:50
Electrified Mooring Field? Mooring Power Mule Electrical: Batteries, Generators & Solar 31 08-04-2010 09:00
Naples FL Mooring Field Is Open markpj23 Atlantic & the Caribbean 0 25-04-2009 07:39
PLEASE SUPPORT GULFPORT MOORING FIELD cindydavis Meets & Greets 27 20-07-2008 02:42



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 10:26.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.