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Old 14-11-2014, 15:55   #16
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Re: Sailor Reported Lost Found In Gulf Of Mexico Adrift

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This is how we fool ourselves.

I guess that same cynicism can be applied to fire departments as well. Not sure what your point is anymore.


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Old 14-11-2014, 15:58   #17
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Re: Sailor Reported Lost Found In Gulf Of Mexico Adrift

Mine was counterpoint to your "routine search and rescue operations pose little to no additional cost on the taxpayer."

Taxpayers bear the entire cost of providing these rescues. I think I see your point, that if they weren't spending our $ one one thing, they'd be spending it on the other. On this we can agree.
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Old 14-11-2014, 16:12   #18
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Re: Sailor Reported Lost Found In Gulf Of Mexico Adrift

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Mine was counterpoint to your "routine search and rescue operations pose little to no additional cost on the taxpayer."

Taxpayers bear the entire cost of providing these rescues. I think I see your point, that if they weren't spending our $ one one thing, they'd be spending it on the other. On this we can agree.

Exactly. Every time you see that helicopter in the sky iit'costing us(American taxpayers) the same thing whether it's just training/patrolling or is heading out to rescue somebody.



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Old 14-11-2014, 16:12   #19
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Re: Sailor Reported Lost Found In Gulf Of Mexico Adrift

I certainly like this kind of happy ending.

I also learn something with these streams. It's all good.
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Old 14-11-2014, 16:23   #20
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Re: Sailor Reported Lost Found In Gulf Of Mexico Adrift

i say a 77 year old man out sailing should be congratulated .. and looks like he made it back to port. good on him and i hope i can do the same one day
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Old 14-11-2014, 18:58   #21
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Re: Sailor Reported Lost Found In Gulf Of Mexico Adrift

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i say a 77 year old man out sailing should be congratulated .. and looks like he made it back to port. good on him and i hope i can do the same one day
Well, I fully expect to be doing just that in about two months. Hope that you are still around to congratulate me!

And Terra N, I think what folks are saying is that the incremental cost of simple rescues (like this apparently was) are minimal. The fixed costs are what we pay for being (sorta) civilized. The analogy to fire departments is reasonable IMO. We pay those dudes pretty well to spend most of their time playing cribbage and polishing their trucks... but they are heroes when we need them.

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Old 14-11-2014, 19:53   #22
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Re: Sailor Reported Lost Found In Gulf Of Mexico Adrift

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i say a 77 year old man out sailing should be congratulated .. and looks like he made it back to port. good on him and i hope i can do the same one day

I'm sitting in Panama City right now, and my understanding is the family got overly
concerned about "Grandpaw", but Grandpaw was an experienced sailor who
had weeks of food and water and wasn't concerned about a dead battery, if the
wind didn't blow tomorrow, it would the day after, but since the rescue boys were
sent out, it would be rude to refuse.
Maybe I heard wrong
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Old 14-11-2014, 20:01   #23
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Re: Sailor Reported Lost Found In Gulf Of Mexico Adrift

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I'm sure some Coasties on here can confirm or deny this but I recall reading or hearing somewhere that for the most part, "routine" search and rescue operations pose little to no additional cost on the taxpayer. The theory is that the same assets and manpower would still be operating in a training and readiness capacity (which mirrors real world scenarios) absent of a mission. Rescue missions simply replace scheduled training or patrolling for a net sum of zero in resources used. This of course does not apply to abnormal circumstances beyond the normal operational scope of a given CG unit or asset.

CG has a budget just like all other govt. entities. Coasties have annual salaries, so that is not the issue, but there is a set budget for fuel cost. They spent 8 days searching for this guy. I have to assume daylight hours, so about 11 hrs these days. Say 88 hrs. They used a C-130 according to the article. I have to assume they used a helo and maybe surface assets as well. I couldn't tell you what the numbers are, but for air assets they are costly to run. Boats burn less at speeds typically run for search patterns. At least that's what I remember when I served on a 210'. Just say'n.


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Old 14-11-2014, 20:13   #24
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Re: Sailor Reported Lost Found In Gulf Of Mexico Adrift

We were run down by the coast guard at 2:00 am Wed morning about 70 miles off shore of Sanibel. after answering enough questions to get a home loan, turns out all they wanred was to know if we had seen any other vessels. Assuming they where looking for him. Wind was north 15-20 seas 5ft and had been for several days. No wonder he was running late.

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Old 14-11-2014, 20:23   #25
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Re: Sailor Reported Lost Found In Gulf Of Mexico Adrift

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Mine was counterpoint to your "routine search and rescue operations pose little to no additional cost on the taxpayer."

Taxpayers bear the entire cost of providing these rescues. I think I see your point, that if they weren't spending our $ one one thing, they'd be spending it on the other. On this we can agree.
Yes!

They have a fixed budget, and if they don't have enough rescues to do, they will literally go out and do circles in the ocean.

We had an OPAREA (a box on the chart) and we had to patrol it for 90 days. One young officer decided to drive the boat all over, by the end of his 6 hr watch, he had written WBK (his initials) in cursive on the chart plotter, which represented about 1,000 sq mi of ocean.

We would ALL much rather have been rescuing someone that night!! LOL
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Old 14-11-2014, 20:46   #26
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Re: Sailor Reported Lost Found In Gulf Of Mexico Adrift

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CG has a budget just like all other govt. entities. Coasties have annual salaries, so that is not the issue, but there is a set budget for fuel cost. They spent 8 days searching for this guy. I have to assume daylight hours, so about 11 hrs these days. Say 88 hrs. They used a C-130 according to the article. I have to assume they used a helo and maybe surface assets as well. I couldn't tell you what the numbers are, but for air assets they are costly to run. Boats burn less at speeds typically run for search patterns. At least that's what I remember when I served on a 210'. Just say'n.


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Those pilots would have been flying training runs for the hours to keep their proficiency up either way. There's a P3 flight that leaves Barber's Pt. 0600 and arrives North Island about 9 or 10 am every Fri. That same aircrew flies it back on Sunday afternoon. It's called the "School's Flight" and anybody who shows up and signs up can hop it from HI to SD, it's free. I used to bring a sleeping bag and sleep curled up under one of the racks, then my mom would pick me up right at the terminal on base. The purpose is to give P3 pilots enough hours to maintain their proficiency, but the secondary purpose is for morale, so can visit their folks for free.

Check out the MAC flight system, an entire airline spanning all allied countries. All retirees are welcome to fly on a space available basis with active duty having first priority. I know a retired AF guy who has traveled the entire world, taking trips that have spanned months, by taking MAC flights. I ran into him in all kinds of weird places! LOL

The MAC flights are awesome, much larger seats, they greet you with a hot towel, then you're given a huge lunch - sandwich, fruit, cookies, chips, soda, followed by another hot towel, then later in the flight another soda, all for $5.


If you REALLY want to see how taxpayer money gets spent...

look into how the generals outfit their private planes. They each get a huge C40 cargo plane, and there are different modules that slide into it, each one is a kitchen, or a bedroom, or a theater, or dining room. They (collectively) spend millions per year re-outfitting these modules with the latest appliances, furnishings, beds, projectors, rare woods, carpeting, etc.

What are these used for? Family vacations sometimes. Usually boondoggles and bragging rights. Sometimes they bring aides with them. And they're never ugly.
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Old 14-11-2014, 21:50   #27
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Re: Sailor Reported Lost Found In Gulf Of Mexico Adrift

I've been stationed on ships based out of AIRSTA Port Angeles and Kodiak. I can say that those planes and helos were not training all the time. Most of the time they were on the tarmac or in the hanger undergoing maintenance.


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Old 14-11-2014, 22:02   #28
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Re: Sailor Reported Lost Found In Gulf Of Mexico Adrift

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I'm sitting in Panama City right now, and my understanding is the family got overly
concerned about "Grandpaw", but Grandpaw was an experienced sailor who
had weeks of food and water and wasn't concerned about a dead battery, if the
wind didn't blow tomorrow, it would the day after, but since the rescue boys were
sent out, it would be rude to refuse.
Maybe I heard wrong
This is what I understand to be true. The press sure does muck up the facts. Does anyone know if it WAS a SAR? I thought it was a bolo, he was spotted by a fisherman, and CG made contact to see if he needed aid.

It is a non story.
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Old 15-11-2014, 10:09   #29
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Re: sailor reported lost found in Gulf of Mexico adrift

The media does this intentionally, no one could possibly be that stupid. On the bright side, Robert Redford has another great movie opportunity here.
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Old 15-11-2014, 14:47   #30
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Re: sailor reported lost found in Gulf of Mexico adrift

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The media does this intentionally, no one could possibly be that stupid.

I beg to differ.


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