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Old 03-05-2013, 15:08   #91
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pirate Re: Sailor lost overboard

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Originally Posted by Kettlewell View Post
There are lots of complicated and unreliable methods to set up systems that might allow a MOB to be retrieved, or might allow a boat to be stopped remotely, but there are lots of simple, robust, and reliable methods to stay onboard in the first place.
Yup.... one hand for me... and one for the boat
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Old 03-05-2013, 15:33   #92
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Re: Sailor lost overboard

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Dunno how it would work with a wheel pilot but pretty easy to set up with a tiller pilot which was the original idea... tie the line to a strong point in the cockpit so it passes under the TP.. get some breaking line and attach it to your trailing line so there's a bit of slack on board then toss the rest over the stern..
The theory was when you grab the line and your weight comes on it snaps the thin line and the grab line snaps up and knocks the TP off its pin... the boat then rounds up into the wind...
Was touted back in the 70's as the single handers lifeline... however long keeled boats have a tendency to keep on trucking for quite a way... so it kinda died a death... still dredged up from time to time by us solo sailors as a blag to concerned friends and family
Maybe its time we pressured Raymarine etc to produce a remote with decent range and waterproof so if one goes over one can initiate a heave to which will at least head the boat back in our general direction..
Thanks for that. I can see that fine.

My question was about a wheel but you saw the (usual type) answer.

OK, so the trigger just goes over the release lever or whatever it is.
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Old 05-05-2013, 09:11   #93
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Re: Sailor lost overboard

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I agree wholeheartedly. So easy to armchair criticize and comment with the exact science of hindsight. May he be found alive (hope beyond hope), but if not R.I.P knowing you were doing what you loved.
I'm not reading too much criticizim into the response to the thread I started. Although there will always be some. After all...it's the internet. I appreciate some of the suggestions to try and prevent such a tragedy happening to anyone else. Just imagine if someone became pro-active after reading some of the posts here and ended up avoiding the end result
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Old 05-05-2013, 11:12   #94
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Hey Celestialsailor

This thread has help us out. We have realized that under full sail in a rough sea, it would be a lot for my wife to handle an MOB solo. So we have practiced a new plan, throw the ring, dumping all sails and start the motor. What my wife had to get used to is allowing the sails to scream out of control while starting the motor and turning the boat. If the motor does not start jib only reefed so she had more control. We now have staps that get looped on the boom when we go to the first reef point to strap down the main sail in a hurry. Not full proof yet but we will continue to improve my chances of being rescued. FYI my wife is only 125# & 4'11" tall. It would be up to me to get back on the boat when it came back to get me. Some thing I had not thought of until now. So I think I will invest in more solutions so we all stay on board!
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Old 05-05-2013, 11:24   #95
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Re: Sailor lost overboard

"Just imagine if someone became pro-active after reading some of the posts here and ended up avoiding the end result...."

Couldn't agree more, CS. I really like the idea of the "halyard loop" shown in Evan's article. For short-handed people, I still think the hardest part is keeping track of the MOB at the same time as you deal with the boat, which is why having an easy-to-spot- in-most-conditions MOB pole is so useful.

And yes, of course, staying on the boat in the first place is best. I also like Evan's "work station" loops--do-able, compact, and Andrew Troup's carabiners for work station tether-shorteners. Interesting thread.
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Old 05-05-2013, 12:00   #96
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Re: Sailor lost overboard

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Hey Celestialsailor

This thread has help us out. We have realized that under full sail in a rough sea, it would be a lot for my wife to handle an MOB solo. So we have practiced a new plan, throw the ring, dumping all sails and start the motor. What my wife had to get used to is allowing the sails to scream out of control while starting the motor and turning the boat. If the motor does not start jib only reefed so she had more control. We now have staps that get looped on the boom when we go to the first reef point to strap down the main sail in a hurry. Not full proof yet but we will continue to improve my chances of being rescued. FYI my wife is only 125# & 4'11" tall. It would be up to me to get back on the boat when it came back to get me. Some thing I had not thought of until now. So I think I will invest in more solutions so we all stay on board!

Put some blocks in a good place to haul up your life sling?
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Old 05-05-2013, 12:46   #97
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Re: Sailor lost overboard

"FYI my wife is only 125# & 4'11" tall. It would be up to me to get back on the boat when it came back to get me. Some thing I had not thought of until now. So I think I will invest in more solutions so we all stay on board!"

Autumn Wind, consider upgrading your halyard winches, so that your wife will be able to winch you up, amidships, on the lee side. Use lashings which she can cut with the knife you have sheathed in the cockpit to secure your lifelines, or releaseable-under-load snapshackles on the lifelines. It will be easier for her (and on you) if you don't have to get over the lifelines. There is a principle a nice guy taught me a long time ago, "if you don't have huge strength, get a longer lever." That only goes so far, but seriously, let her try winching you up the mast with your existing winches. If she can't, then she won't be able to get you back aboard either, unless you upgrade.
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Old 05-05-2013, 13:03   #98
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Re: Sailor lost overboard

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Originally Posted by Ann T. Cate View Post
"FYI my wife is only 125# & 4'11" tall. It would be up to me to get back on the boat when it came back to get me. Some thing I had not thought of until now. So I think I will invest in more solutions so we all stay on board!"

Autumn Wind, consider upgrading your halyard winches, so that your wife will be able to winch you up, amidships, on the lee side. Use lashings which she can cut with the knife you have sheathed in the cockpit to secure your lifelines, or releaseable-under-load snapshackles on the lifelines. It will be easier for her (and on you) if you don't have to get over the lifelines. There is a principle a nice guy taught me a long time ago, "if you don't have huge strength, get a longer lever." That only goes so far, but seriously, let her try winching you up the mast with your existing winches. If she can't, then she won't be able to get you back aboard either, unless you upgrade.

I have gates on both sides on my life lines, and you could have a 5:1 block system all ready to go, rig it between a stanchion and the boom, and just pull the person up. You'd want it set up so the end pulley was at the boom end. You could easily have a receptacle on a line permanently on the boom. I'm pretty strong and I don't think I could winch someone up in a rough sea. Just keeping yourself planted in place can be hard in a rolling sea.


I would suggest actually testing (as in, person in water) on a calm day. This is what I'm going to try.
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Old 05-05-2013, 13:07   #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ann T. Cate View Post
"FYI my wife is only 125# & 4'11" tall. It would be up to me to get back on the boat when it came back to get me. Some thing I had not thought of until now. So I think I will invest in more solutions so we all stay on board!"

Autumn Wind, consider upgrading your halyard winches, so that your wife will be able to winch you up, amidships, on the lee side. Use lashings which she can cut with the knife you have sheathed in the cockpit to secure your lifelines, or releaseable-under-load snapshackles on the lifelines. It will be easier for her (and on you) if you don't have to get over the lifelines. There is a principle a nice guy taught me a long time ago, "if you don't have huge strength, get a longer lever." That only goes so far, but seriously, let her try winching you up the mast with your existing winches. If she can't, then she won't be able to get you back aboard either, unless you upgrade.
We have some realy nice winches with two settings. We also have quick release life lines... I will have to see if she can pull me up... Thanks for the tip. If i am consenice we have a side boading ladder that is realy nice.
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Old 05-05-2013, 14:10   #100
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Re: Sailor lost overboard

OK: here's some quick thoughts on how to rig a trailing line to trip an autopilot.

If it's an industrial unit, and I didn't have the chops to do it myself, I would take it to a competent repairer.

I would instruct them to add a pair of terminals which had to remain closed-circuit, or else the unit would apply helm hard-over, and stay there until the contacts were re-closed.

A deluxe approach would be to have two such inputs: one for starboard tack and one for port.

A waterproof, environment proof, NO (Normally Open) limit switch(es) in the lazarette would be externally biased to the closed condition, and rigged to trip and open the circult when the trailing line was pulled, using a reliable toggle. (This is probably the most fail-safe approach, but I'm shooting from the hip here, so apply some critical analysis before adopting)

Another approach (for any pilot with a hydraulic ram) is to add a relay to the control circuit the hydraulic valve which switches it the spool to the 'all ports open' position, handing control back to the wheel. If this boat will not immediately round up in this condition (and many cruising boats will not), it will need a biasing load. There will be plenty of force available from the trailing line to do this.

If the wheel's already fitted with a central drum for wind-vane steering, then the tripline can be wrapped around this, otherwise you will have to add something. It needn't be a proper drum: for these purposes, it would be sufficient to (say) have aft-facing mushroom-like knobs strapped to the spokes to simulate a skeletal drum.

For a tiller pilot, the method explained further up this thread works well, except for the rare boat which will continue on course with the helm free. In this case, it's simply a matter of looping a bungee (rubber tubing works well) over the tiller, or better still rigging the trailing line so that tension on it, having tripped away the pilot, pulls the tiller across.

I usually manage to do without an autopilot sailing hard on the wind by balancing the sail plan (unless the wind is variable).

In such cases, I rig the tripline to pull out a toggle which releases the tiller-immobilising line on the windward side (relating this to a tiller, but the same principles can be applied to a wheel) before the tension in the line pulls the tiller across to leeward.

Generally speaking, the key with toggles is to arrange them so the force removing the toggle pin is at right angles to the force the toggle was resisting, prior to being tripped. And to minimise friction and embeddability: use a hard plastic like PETP (acetal is OK but mind the UV rating- preferably black).

Wheel pilots of the toothed belt drive persuasion, with 'consumer' or 'prosumer' housings, are perhaps the biggest challenge: here a mechanical solution might be the best option, which trips the belt tensioning provision, enabling the trailing line to apply bias to the driven pulley.

I personally see the main use of trailing lines, (always as a last-resort backstop to rigorous use of tethers), being for a boat which is EFFECTIVELY singlehanding: in other words, only one person is on watch while the other (if there is another) sleeps.

And it has to be drummed into that other person that, if the tripline self-rescue fails, the first thing they must do on reaching the deck is to cut the line, which should be fitted with a sinker a few feet aft of the transom for obvious reasons.

I'm prepared to field PMs in moderation, if anyone wants to knock around specific ideas on this.
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Old 05-05-2013, 15:36   #101
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Re: Sailor lost overboard

I had given this some thought years ago when I almost went overboard at Ano Nuevo south of San Francisco. I now have a boarding ladder on the back that I can easily reach while shoulder deep in water. The release is a slip knot.
If anyone is interested, I will tell the story. I came really close.
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Old 05-05-2013, 15:47   #102
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pirate Re: Sailor lost overboard

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Originally Posted by Celestialsailor View Post
I had given this some thought years ago when I almost went overboard at Ano Nuevo south of San Francisco. I now have a boarding ladder on the back that I can easily reach while shoulder deep in water. The release is a slip knot.
If anyone is interested, I will tell the story. I came really close.
That's why we're here... for the story's...
Flesh out the suggestions/ideas... makes em more memorable and interesting..

Good one on the bungee... I'd forgotten that bit...
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Old 05-05-2013, 16:24   #103
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Re: Sailor lost overboard

Along the jack line/tether thinking. I've done a fair amount of training in commercial fall protection and agree that this (staying on the boat) is the first step but it has to be done right. In a fall of 6'; it is figured that a force of 3000 lbs is generated and the whole system needs to be designed for that. Commercially the standard is to withstand a force of 5000 lbs without failure. Also commercial gear will reduce the force experienced to 900 lbs which is the max a person can sustain without considerable injury. The harnesses are built to distribute that force whereas the harness say of the Mustang inflatable isnt really built for that. The commercial gear isn't generally built for the saltwater environment and probably gear built for recreational rock climbing may be the most appropriate it seems to me. Evan's thought of creating various workstations is good and what is used is short adjustable tethers that allow one to work hands free and secure. That is in addition to the restraint tether used to move about on deck.
In short,as a rule of thumb - the jackline and anchor points need to be built with enough strength to let a pickup truck hang from.
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Old 05-05-2013, 16:26   #104
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Re: Sailor lost overboard

"For a tiller pilot, the method explained further up this thread works well, except for the rare boat which will continue on course with the helm free. In this case, it's simply a matter of looping a bungee (rubber tubing works well) over the tiller, or better still rigging the trailing line so that tension on it, having tripped away the pilot, pulls the tiller across."

That's how it worked on my first boat -- had no tiller pilot for it.

I just clipped the drag line to the bottom of the tiller. Pull on the drag line, and it pulled the tiller. That's why the boat heaved itself to. The sails were locked down, but the headsail backwinded. If I'd been on the opposite tack, I'm assuming it would have turned 180 and then heaved to. Either way a person would have had a very decent chance of getting back to the boat.
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Old 05-05-2013, 16:30   #105
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Re: Sailor lost overboard

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I had given this some thought years ago when I almost went overboard at Ano Nuevo south of San Francisco. I now have a boarding ladder on the back that I can easily reach while shoulder deep in water. The release is a slip knot.
If anyone is interested, I will tell the story. I came really close.

The story up on my blog right now is about a guy who made a big mistake boarding a boat and ended up in the water with a badly broken leg. He got himself to the stern of the boat, and the owner had the ladder tied up so that a tug on a line would drop it down. THEN the crucial thing was that the ladder was long enough, went deep enough into the water that he was able to get on it even badly injured. Managed to drag himslf up and into the cockpit.

Fortunately he threw his backpack into the cockpit before trying to board, so his cell phone didn't go in the water with him. He was able to get it out and call 911.

Those two things saved his life because a piece of bone had severed his femoral artery. He was bleeding to death. True story. I know the guy, he told me the story (and showed me the huge surgery scar on his thigh) last Wednesday.
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