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Old 25-11-2010, 18:55   #1
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Sad Stuff

Gulf Stream gale ends sailing trip in tragedy : The Martha's Vineyard Times

I remember 20 years ago when the Captain of this boat sailed into the Vineyard with his family. He was a very able sailor, very sad loss.
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Old 25-11-2010, 20:47   #2
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Very sad indeed.
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Old 25-11-2010, 23:05   #3
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A stern reminder to all of us. Rest in Peace!
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Old 28-11-2010, 07:27   #4
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No EPIRB. Locator beacons can now be had for a couple hundred bucks.
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Old 28-11-2010, 07:50   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jzk View Post
No EPIRB. Locator beacons can now be had for a couple hundred bucks.
Its all down to personal choices/decisions...
I sail without EPIRB/Liferaft and do not use harness/lifelines or a life jacket....
I know that if I go down I've only me and my dinghy to survive...
I also know for certain the folks on here will have a ball slagging me down for being irresponsible/stupid/dangerous.. etc..
I ask only one thing if it makes the news or someone on here posts the event...
Stick a YouTube Video up with Frank Sinatra's "My Way"
**** Happens...

I'm not deriding the guy or disrespecting him in anyway... with his experience he knew the risks so before the indignant leap in screaming...
Lets face it... there are no Guarantees in life... and even fewer in our lifestyle... if you cant take the heat get outa the kitchen...
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Old 28-11-2010, 07:57   #6
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It all comes down to a cost benefit analysis. The cost of a harness/tether and a locator beacon are minimal compared to their benefits.

Then there is the question of putting one's crew at risk for no appreciable reason.
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Old 28-11-2010, 08:46   #7
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Originally Posted by jzk View Post
It all comes down to a cost benefit analysis. The cost of a harness/tether and a locator beacon are minimal compared to their benefits.

Then there is the question of putting one's crew at risk for no appreciable reason.
"Mr. Thorns, who was wearing a lifeline, was caught in the rigging, injured and thrown into the sea. His daughter and Mr. White were unable to pull the badly injured Mr. Thorns back onboard.".
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Old 28-11-2010, 09:37   #8
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I only wear my harness if I am moving faster than I can swim, and I need to use both hands at the same time, or if it is stormy... I wonder how long I'll last heh,
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Old 28-11-2010, 09:45   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boatman61 View Post
Its all down to personal choices/decisions...
I sail without EPIRB/Liferaft and do not use harness/lifelines or a life jacket....
I know that if I go down I've only me and my dinghy to survive...
I also know for certain the folks on here will have a ball slagging me down for being irresponsible/stupid/dangerous.. etc..
I ask only one thing if it makes the news or someone on here posts the event...
Stick a YouTube Video up with Frank Sinatra's "My Way"
**** Happens...

I'm not deriding the guy or disrespecting him in anyway... with his experience he knew the risks so before the indignant leap in screaming...
Lets face it... there are no Guarantees in life... and even fewer in our lifestyle... if you cant take the heat get outa the kitchen...
I think much of that decision comes down to who you would leave behind and how much they would be hurt if you perished. It's not really you who matters, it's who you would leave behind.

Please do not take this as an insult, but after one is gone, all that matters are the feelings of those who exist.

In this respect, risky behavior can and does have potentially greater consequences for some than for others.

For you boatman, my guess is that it is probably less than a husband who might leave behind a wife and five children.

This has nothing to do with placing a greater or lesser value on anyone's life...it has everything to do with ones loved ones.
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Old 28-11-2010, 10:03   #10
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On my boats I'm 95% solo....
On others boats with crew I have a sworn responsibility to the owner of the boat and the crew I sail with....
The contract states emergency equipment in good condition is the obligation of the owner to provide.. else I do not accept the job... or will not sail until it is provided... my crew knows how to sail/motor and perform MOB... how well I hope never to have to find out for real
But I still will not use a harness or jacket... they slow you (me) down and get in the way of fast efficient work... my crew is free to use whatever they choose...
As for who I leave behind... everyone dies... no one knows where or when so grief sooner or later is inevitable... a fact of life few seem prepared to accept
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Old 28-11-2010, 11:08   #11
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Sad news. Condolences to the friends and family. At least the daughter kept her spirits (pun intended) as she was enjoying a whiskey and coke on board the rescue ship.
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Old 28-11-2010, 11:58   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boatman61 View Post
Its all down to personal choices/decisions...
I sail without EPIRB/Liferaft and do not use harness/lifelines or a life jacket....
I know that if I go down I've only me and my dinghy to survive...
I also know for certain the folks on here will have a ball slagging me down for being irresponsible/stupid/dangerous.. etc..
I ask only one thing if it makes the news or someone on here posts the event...
Stick a YouTube Video up with Frank Sinatra's "My Way"
**** Happens...

I'm not deriding the guy or disrespecting him in anyway... with his experience he knew the risks so before the indignant leap in screaming...
Lets face it... there are no Guarantees in life... and even fewer in our lifestyle... if you cant take the heat get outa the kitchen...
I usually agree with your points of view, Boatman, and this one is no exception.

I hope we all are sensitive in this thread as to our methods of discussion as to what should have been done (as in what "I would have done") in a similar situation. I am not saying we can't learn from this tragedy. I am saying there's a lot of broken hearts out there right now, and finger-pointing (if any) should be tempered with respect. As Boatman said, "**** Happens."

May we all go out "our way".
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Old 02-12-2010, 16:47   #13
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Amanda sails with a very close friend of mine on a regular basis as she is a close friend of his daughter. He tells me that she is a hands on sailor and a favorite crew member. In the near future I hope to have the chance to meet her and speak to her of this tragedy first hand and learn from her.

May God Bless Amanda, her father, William, and all the Family.
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Old 02-12-2010, 17:51   #14
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Yes, condolences to the family and friends.

Certainly sounds like they were all experienced and knew what they were doing. I agree with Boatman61 though, that carrying an EPIRB or wearing a harness is a decission we shouldn't be forced to make or judged for not doing. For all we know it was the lifeline that was the cause of the loss. Things happen. Sad and hard indeed.
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Old 02-12-2010, 19:25   #15
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I think Boatman's spot-on here. It's a personal choice how we sail, and that's at least a significant part of why we do this. It's not like long-distance cruising is all fun and games..there's very real (and sometimes tragic) confrontation with mother nature to deal with, and at some point we need to respect people's choices rather than talk about where we think they screwed up.

I'm a lot like Boatman. I don't tether up unless it's really severe or night-time foredeck sail adjustment, or some other extenuating circumstance. Mostly, I just walk around when I'm cruising along at 5-6 knots, careful to keep my weight down and I always trail a line behind the boat that I can use to get back on, if needed. I've had too many times where the harness and tether have caused problems in otherwise routine and calm situations, so my own choice is to only armor up when there's a fight to be had.

But those are simply individual choices, and if I go down into the drink never to be heard from again, it's probably because of something I did, not because of something I didn't do.

Still, heartfelt sympathies to the people left behind when tragedy occurs. Most of us know a bit about being one of those 'left behind,' so to speak, and it's no fun.
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