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Old 30-04-2012, 20:33   #31
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Re: Sad News Again Off Mexico

Slightly off topic but pertaining to Mx...More drug wars. this time in NV
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Old 30-04-2012, 21:24   #32
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Re: Sad News Again Off Mexico

I was on watch at 0130 on the night of the collision. The visibility was excellent. I saw at least 23 boats surrounding us. At that time we were located some 12 miles off shore abeam of Pacific Beach. That would have put us some 20 miles away from the Coronado Islands. Any boat in the Cruising Class as Aegean was would have been smart to accept the time penalty and turn on their engine as the wind at the time was 3 to 4 knots true. We were having a hard time keeping the goose eggs from showing up on the knot meter. The lowest I saw was .67 knots. I was listening closely to the VHF and didn't hear the conversation but we easily could have been out of range. The race did cross the shipping lanes but I don't think that there are any shipping lanes off the Coronado Islands.
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Old 01-05-2012, 00:41   #33
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Re: Sad News Again Off Mexico

Now there's a theory being discussed involving autopilot.
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Old 01-05-2012, 04:49   #34
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Re: Sad News Again Off Mexico

This link was posted on another forum and is reported to be the "Aegean's" track via the SPOT system:

SPOT Shared Page
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Old 01-05-2012, 06:58   #35
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Re: Sad News Again Off Mexico

That puts them in the surf on North coronado island. Which would explain why the boat was shredded. If thats the accurate track.
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Old 01-05-2012, 08:26   #36
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Re: Sad News Again Off Mexico

Quote:
Originally Posted by sabray View Post
That puts them in the surf on North coronado island. Which would explain why the boat was shredded. If thats the accurate track.
The charts of the western Mexico coast used with most plotters were surveyed in the late 1700's or early 1800's. Longitude was not always spot on.
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Old 01-05-2012, 08:33   #37
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Re: Sad News Again Off Mexico

even with auto, someone should have been on watch so nothing bad happens. if that is case, then this is a lesson , albeit a difficult one, as to WHY that alert watchman is NEEDED.
auto doesnt speak up when a freighter comes at ye and doesnt speak up when ye need it to.
this racer was experienced and knew the area. and the risks. is not an easy coast to navigate, even with many trips under the belt.
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Old 01-05-2012, 09:01   #38
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Re: Sad News Again Off Mexico

Sailing Anarchy Home Page

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Old 01-05-2012, 09:03   #39
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Re: Sad News Again Off Mexico

Quote:
Originally Posted by sabray View Post
That puts them in the surf on North coronado island. Which would explain why the boat was shredded. If thats the accurate track.
That possibility requires you to project the track. People seem to be thinking that the accident occurred precisely at the point where SPOT stopped tracking.
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Old 01-05-2012, 09:03   #40
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Re: Sad News Again Off Mexico

Witness Says Cargo Ship Caused Yacht Crash

U.S. Sailing Association President Says Witness On Another Sailboat Saw Cargo Ship Hit Aegean

POSTED: 5:06 am PDT April 30, 2012
UPDATED: 11:46 pm PDT April 30, 2012

SAN DIEGO -- A witness on another sailboat claims she saw a cargo ship hit a yacht off the Coronado Islands, resulting in a crash that left three men dead and one missing.
» Video: Local Group Searching For Missing Yachtsman

A spokesman for Newport Ocean Sailing Association, which puts on the annual Newport to Ensenada race, said the wreckage of the 37-foot Aegean dropped off the race's boat-tracking system about 1:30 a.m. Saturday, and the debris field found when the sun rose later the same day suggested it was hit by a much larger vessel.


The president of the U.S. Sailing Association told 10News over the phone that a woman on another sailboat witnessed the accident, telling investigators the Aegean was hit by a cargo ship.
U.S. Sailing Association President Gary Jobson told 10News his group plans to appoint an independent panel to investigate the accident.
"At night, it's conceivable that the ship did not see the small boat, but there were a couple hundred boats on the water, so for sure the ship had to know there was a lot of traffic in the area," Jobson said.
Sailors who knew skipper Theo Mavromatis, 49, of Redondo Beach, said he was conscientious, safety oriented and had his Hunter 376 outfitted with "all the bells and whistles," including radar, which is a collision-avoidance tool.
10News has learned many yachtsmen now have an Automatic Identification System, known as AIS.
Les George, an Oceanside yachtsman who sails a 39-foot yacht called Obsession, demonstrated how the system picks up signals from ships that are sometimes miles away and transmits their position, telling the vessel name, course, speed and destination.
"But if the boat isn't transmitting, you just cannot see them until they're on top of you," said George, who has sailed in the Newport to Ensenada race at least a dozen times.
Winds were light at the time, and if only one person were on deck, he may have had trouble starting the boat's auxiliary engine and getting out of the way in time.
"It's a tragic accident, I mean, you're out there and its dark, everybody's racing with minimal lights," said George, who spoke with some friends who just returned from the race. "They’re saying it was a light wind race, with not a lot of sea condition but there was a ton of boat traffic out there."
On Saturday afternoon, the bodies of Joseph Lester Stewart, 64, of Bradenton, Fla. and 57-year-old William Reed Johnson Jr. of Torrance were recovered, along with the body of Kevin Rudolph.
The San Diego County Medical Examiner's Office said Monday that Rudolph died of blunt force injuries to his head and neck; Johnson died of multiple blunt force injuries; and Stewart drowned.
The ship that struck the fiberglass sloop has not been identified. Some of the first rescuers on scene were able to identify a debris field as that of the Aegean, because its transom, emblazoned with its name, was still afloat.
The yacht was one of 213 sailboats in the roughly 125-mile race, which started about noon Friday. Most boats finished Saturday.
The U.S. Coast Guard suspended its search Sunday afternoon.
"It's never easy to make the decision to suspend a search and rescue case," said Capt. Sean Mahoney, the commander of the agency's San Diego sector. "The Coast Guard extends its sympathies to the families and friends of the Aegean crew. They will be in our thoughts and prayers."
A local private rescue group has stepped in to help search for Mavromatis who is still missing at sea.
Niki Burgan is the founder of SoCal H2O Rescue Group.
Burgan’s parents and sister were killed when their small plane crashed near Carlsbad State Beach five years ago. Her father's body was never recovered.
"It's our goal to let the family know that every possible last resource was utilized in bringing their family member home, if that's at all a possibility," Burgan told 10News.
She added, "I feel like this is my way of giving back. Yesterday was the five-year anniversary of the crash and it was very emotional for me… I just wanted to isolate myself with my family, but I felt a nudge from my mom saying, 'Get out there and see what you can do.'"
Burgan’s group is comprised of certified lifeguards and specially trained search and rescue dogs.
They left from the Chula Vista Marina at 1:30 a.m. Monday morning. They will meet up with Mexican authorities who are still searching the area.
Burgan and her dog Rummy came back empty handed on Monday but plan to go out again later this week.
"You just never know… the search is never done and until that one person comes back," she said. "I know what the families are going through… It's heart-wrenching."
The fatalities were first in the 65 years that the Newport to Ensenada race has been run, race organizers said.
Rich Roberts of the Newport Ocean Sailing Association, which puts on the race, said the collision occurred just south of border near the Coronado Islands, a group of four islands about 8 miles off the Baja California coast.
The course of the Aegean crossed shipping lanes used by commercial and military ships headed to and from the ports of San Diego and Ensenada, and maritime investigators will attempt to identify the ship involved. The captain of ship hundreds of times as big as the Aegean might have been unaware of the collision.
The deaths marked the second yachting disaster this spring. On April 14 off San Francisco, five lives were lost when a yacht in a race around the Farallon Islands was disabled by a breaking wave and washed onto a rocky shore. That prompted the Coast Guard to suspend offshore sailboat racing in Northern California.
Previous Stories:
April 29, 2012: Crew In Fatal Yacht Accident Identified


my SPOT shows me 100 yards away from my actual place of existence. i wouldnt hold it to be a true source of accurate location--is but within 100 yards...

we all need to remember our mexican and kali coastlines are not friendly and hold many surprises. when we become complacent we lose. mother ocean is a tough love kind of mom-- smacks upside the head if we slack off for any reason. please keep alert and watchful watches. would a more alert watchman have prevented this situation????? we will not know.
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Old 01-05-2012, 10:31   #41
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Re: Sad News Again Off Mexico

I would guess that the "woman on another sailboat witnessed the accident, telling investigators the Aegean was hit by a cargo ship" referred to in the above news article is actually a misinterpretation of the previous report by a female racer in which she said that she had heard VHF communications from a large ship ("Do you see me?", to which she replied "Yes I see you."). If so, she did not witness a collision and the radio traffic may have nothing to do with the Aegean. This may be another case of a reporter or editor getting it wrong -- happens all the time.

As for the Spot track, the track is straight and steady for several hours, showing a speed of a bit over five kts. The conjecture is that after a spell of extremely slow going they began motoring. The position reports were transmitted every ten minutes, and lead directly into the north face of the island. The Spot beacon does not float, and will not transmit under water.
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Old 01-05-2012, 11:01   #42
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Re: Sad News Again Off Mexico

I can't imagine anyone who witnessed a cargo ship running down a sailboat wouldn't immediately radio for help and go try to find survivors. So, yes, I hope you're right and it was a bad job of reportage.

FWIW, we keep our Spot in an neoprene armband that floats (we also add a slice of pool noodle in the pocket to increase buoyancy). The armband comes as part of the Spot package, but many may not use it.
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Old 01-05-2012, 11:03   #43
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Re: Sad News Again Off Mexico

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bash View Post
That possibility requires you to project the track. People seem to be thinking that the accident occurred precisely at the point where SPOT stopped tracking.
except as I understand the spot transmitted a location shown as waypoint 50 Aegean
ESN :
0-2108668

Type :
Track Progress

Latitude :
32.44532

Longitude :
-117.29999

Time :
Saturday, April 28, 2012 4:36:36 AM








which is very near or in the surf on north coronado. I would expect that had a witness seen the event a mayday would have gone out. guessing that report is bad news reporting.
No sign of distress before sailboat wreck is found - CBS News Eric Lamb was doing safety patrol on a 124-mile yacht race when he spotted a boat that appeared too close to Mexico's Coronado Islands. He never got there.

As his twin-engine boat neared the uninhabited islands just south of San Diego, he stumbled on sailboat shards that were mostly no more than six inches long strewn over about two square miles. He saw a small refrigerator, a white seat cushion and empty containers of yogurt and soy milk. (from above article)
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Old 01-05-2012, 11:31   #44
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Re: Sad News Again Off Mexico

I agree with Sabray. While the charts in Mexico are off by a few miles, google maps and satellite imagery is all spot on to the foot. I have confirmed this in Mexico with google maps on my phone with GPS. I regularly use google maps as a navigation system because I can see rocks in the detailed satellite view that are not on the very poor charts. I'm sure the coordinates listed by SPOT are on the shore of the island.

Unless there was a problem with the SPOT, giving incorrect lat/lon, they hit the island, not a freighter.
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Old 01-05-2012, 12:03   #45
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Re: Sad News Again Off Mexico

shining a spot light on the sails might help....certainly, but...at the rate the cargo/container ships and/or freighters travel..if they are upon you...and they are very quickly...they can not adjust their direction quick enough to avoid you...or "put on the brakes" to stop hitting you...as you know the forward travel continues for considerable distance..even if they cut all the power...its up to the smaller and more maneuverable vessel to keep watch for and scurry out of the path of the water borne behemoth to avoid disaster. I would image that the EPIRB was trashed like everything else in the ensuing collision...
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