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Old 23-02-2013, 09:31   #16
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Re: S/V Primrose grounds and sinks on ICW near Ponce

So sad, I hope they get back on board and cruising soon.
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Old 23-02-2013, 09:36   #17
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Re: S/V Primrose grounds and sinks on ICW near Ponce

This looks like a major construction error:
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Old 23-02-2013, 10:16   #18
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Re: S/V Primrose grounds and sinks on ICW near Ponce

Searched through their blog. She is a 1977 Moody 42 pilot house ketch. Design draft 5.5 feet.
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Old 23-02-2013, 10:50   #19
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Re: S/V Primrose grounds and sinks on ICW near Ponce

It would sure be interesting to know the history of the boat before this couple bought it.
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Old 23-02-2013, 11:08   #20
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Re: S/V Primrose grounds and sinks on ICW near Ponce

Looks like the rudder is the same depth as the keel. Not a good design to keep the rudder from taking damage in a grounding. Still, just backing off under it's own power shouldn't be able to rip off a skeg. Wonder if they cranked up the rpm in reverse to get the boat off and built up considerable speed once the boat was off. If that was the case and they then rammed the rudder into another sand bank, there could have been enough force to cause the damage.

Unfortunately, a lot of skegs were installed to the hull after the hull was laid up. Critical with these to bond them properly and doing it with polyester resin rather than epoxy is problematical. Doesn't look like that's the case with this boat but someone familiar with the Moody might be able to verify that.
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Old 23-02-2013, 11:17   #21
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Re: S/V Primrose grounds and sinks on ICW near Ponce

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Still, just backing off under it's own power shouldn't be able to rip off a skeg. Wonder if they cranked up the rpm in reverse to get the boat off and built up considerable speed once the boat was off.
Often in the ICW, when within the marked channel, if you go aground it is not that large a patch of shallow water. Sometimes you can simply power forward through it to deep water. In this case they said they hit hard, so I imagine it was sand. Often a better alternative to backing off is to pivot the bow around and head towards deeper water. Sometimes it is worth it to get in the dinghy and poke around with a boat hook or a handheld depth finder to find out where the deeper water is. There's around three feet of tide around there, so you might be able to use that to your advantage.
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Old 23-02-2013, 15:06   #22
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Re: S/V Primrose grounds and sinks on ICW near Ponce

"Often a better alternative to backing off is to pivot the bow around and head towards deeper water."

I rarely disagree with Kettlewell, but I do disagree with this advice, based on my own experience and the loss of a 70' custom sloop.

Some years ago I wrote a story about this in Ocean Navigator. It concerns a professionally-crewed boat just returning from a circumnavigation which ran up on a shoal just SW of Neckar Island in the BVI. The boat had a winged keel, which apparently dug pretty well into the sand.

When, at the captain's behest, a rescue boat attempted to pull his bow around toward deeper water, the keel bolts snapped, the boat turned on its side and sank. Multi-million dollar loss, partly because of valuable paintings below.

What should he have done instead? Much better to put out an anchor aft and -- using winches and windlass assisted by a gentle engine pull in reverse -- back off the way the boat grounded.

Here's a reference to the original article if anyone cares:
More thoughts on grounding in BVI - Ocean Navigator - January/February 2003

Bill
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Old 23-02-2013, 15:14   #23
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Re: S/V Primrose grounds and sinks on ICW near Ponce

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I rarely disagree with Kettlewell, but I do disagree with this advice, based on my own experience and the loss of a 70' custom sloop.
I'm not saying to do this every time, but remember an ICW grounding is usually in soft, oozy mud. Sure, I would consider a different technique if the bottom were very hard with coral. My boat will pivot around pretty good to port with just short back and forth on the throttle, so it often doesn't even take an anchor. I'm talking about typical ICW soft groundings caused usually by wandering too far to the side. In any case, we can see what happened to the Primrose with a generous dollop of throttle in reverse.
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Old 23-02-2013, 15:15   #24
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Regardless of what happened, things like rudders and skegs should have engineered weak points that break before gaping holes are ripped in the hull. I did not expect this from Moody. I also can't believe the ripped fiberglass as shown in the picture; I find it way too clean-cut.
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Old 23-02-2013, 16:20   #25
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Re: S/V Primrose grounds and sinks on ICW near Ponce

Doesn't it look in the photo like the rudder shaft is bent aft and to starboard? It is hard to picture how it could get bent that way with the boat in reverse, unless it was rebent during the salvage.
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Old 23-02-2013, 16:32   #26
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Re: S/V Primrose grounds and sinks on ICW near Ponce

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Originally Posted by s/v Jedi View Post
Regardless of what happened, things like rudders and skegs should have engineered weak points that break before gaping holes are ripped in the hull. I did not expect this from Moody. I also can't believe the ripped fiberglass as shown in the picture; I find it way too clean-cut.

Good point... Photos I've seen of other boats that had something torn apart tend to have lots of fibers poking out of the damage. Not much on this one.
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Old 23-02-2013, 16:36   #27
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Re: S/V Primrose grounds and sinks on ICW near Ponce

Take a look at the Bing maps bird's eye view and you can clearly see the shoal building out between the 18 and the 18A.
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Old 24-02-2013, 02:03   #28
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Re: S/V Primrose grounds and sinks on ICW near Ponce

This accident is why people should subscribe to the U.S.C.G. Notice to Mariners.

There are several ways to get it.
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Old 24-02-2013, 02:39   #29
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Re: S/V Primrose grounds and sinks on ICW near Ponce

Fair enough but it doesn't explain why the skeg blew through the hull with out nasty fragmenting of the hull. If it was a add on after hull lamination it would have ripped a massive section out and dangled. What we see is a nice very short ground section of glass and no skeg or strands of glass. I wouldnt expect to see such a clean break under any build profile. Something happened to that skeg before this. Or or uhgh Moody has no idea how to build a boat.
Jedi is right on. Way to clean cut. I cant cant explain how that can look that way reasonably. Best I can guess is the skeg was cut off and some idiot glassed it back with a way to low ratio. Or moody added the skeg as a after thought and used way to low ratio. Nothing rational explains that ground back surface where the skeg was.
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Old 24-02-2013, 07:36   #30
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Re: S/V Primrose grounds and sinks on ICW near Ponce

Quote:
FLORIDA-ATLANTIC INTRACOASTAL WATERWAY-MATANZAS INLET- MOSQUITO LAGOON-PONCE DE LEON CUT: Shoaling.
Extreme shoaling is present in the vicinity of Ponce de Leon Cut DBN 18 (LLNR 40610). A 5ft shoal extends approximately 10 yards into the
channel at low tide water depth is approximately 5ft. Mariners are advised to use extreme caution while transiting the area.
Chart 11485
LNM: 05/13
For those who missed it earlier in this thread, this is the notice.
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