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Old 20-11-2008, 11:34   #91
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Originally Posted by Seadog! View Post
Pblais-
You are dead wrong on your statement about if 1 goes they all go. This is NOT Coast GUARD policy.

The 5 adults will make statements for an insurance claim, even if the Panache is recovered.

I agree!
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Old 20-11-2008, 15:04   #92
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I have to agree with i2f. I doubt there is anyone on this forum that does not empathize with the owners and crew of Panache. The very reason this thread has drawn so much attention and comment is because we all realize that there but for the grace of God...

I doubt also that anyone on CF has any intention of directly criticizing or in any way demeaning any of the decisions made by the crew. As has been clearly stated, only those on the scene know the exact circumstances of the incident and none of us know exactly how we would react in the same situation. Therein I think lies the interest and the point of posts that are being perceived as judgmental or critical of the crew of the Panache. Since it is not safe or practical to intentionally put oneself in harms way to learn how to deal with a extreme situation then the only way that 99.9% of us can learn and prepare for such possibilities is indirectly by discussion or observation.

In any endeavor that presents significant risks to the participants, accident analysis is a primary tool for developing procedures to prevent or better deal with future problems. I am sure that Soft Air will confirm that this is certainly the case in the airline industry. It is the same with SCUBA, sky diving, climbing, etc. We are not judging but trying to learn and on this basis I think discussion, analysis and critique of potential action is well justified.

I will take the liberty to speak for all of us and say that we all feel for everyone on the Panache. To lose a boat, a home and dream is, to say the least devastating. The lose tempered only by the fact that no one was seriously injured. Our sympathy to everyone on the Panache and no insult or criticism is meant or intended in any way.
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Old 20-11-2008, 17:10   #93
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Gord May- been there, done that. 3 times in my career crewmembers have been hoisted from vessels I was aboard.

To All...I will confess here. I came to this site fishing for evidence/opinions derogatory to the Oldens. My daughter is Rachael Slattery, she and here boyfriend Sam were asked to sail with the Oldens on this trip. They are both VERY experienced sailors.
I have been at sea and only have internet, no cell phone. So I haven't been able to talk with her till today. She has asked me not to discuss the details of their troubles on this site, other than to say the Captain made good and reasonable decisions based on their circumstances. She is safe at home with her head held high knowing the part she and Sam played in this families misfortune. She wishes the Olden family the best of luck.
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Old 20-11-2008, 17:26   #94
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Originally Posted by Seadog! View Post
Gord May- been there, done that. 3 times in my career crewmembers have been hoisted from vessels I was aboard.

The CG will remove crew if the individual has an injury, illness, or other unique issue; I would be interested in knowing the circumstances of these 3 crew members being removed from a vessel.
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Old 20-11-2008, 18:13   #95
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1975...41' Sailing Vessel, off the Virginia coast, 1 crewman evacuated by CG helo due to severe seasickness/dehydration/non-responsive.
1995(?)...79' Fishing Vessel, Georges Bank, 1 crewman evacuated by CG helo due to thumb amputation.
2005...367' Fishing Vessel, Bering Sea, 1 crewwoman evacuated by CG helo due to double leg amputation.
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Old 20-11-2008, 18:23   #96
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The differance my be in the May-day request or perceived ( miscommunicated ) may-day request compared to how the others were contacting the CG.

I could be wrong...is there different ways to call the CG?
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Old 20-11-2008, 19:09   #97
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USCG May Forcibly Evacuate Vessel in Distress

<<The U.S. Court of Appeals for the First Circuit ruled that the U.S. Coast Guard may order the forcible evacuation of a vessel in distress when lives are in danger.

In the case brought before the court, the master of a fishing vessel taking on water called the Coast Guard for assistance. Coast Guard personnel and pumps were insufficient to prevent the vessel from taking on more water and listing significantly. Eventually, the USCG on-scene coordinator directed all persons on the fishing vessel, including the master, to abandon ship, as he feared the vessel was about to sink suddenly.

When the master objected, the USCG officer advised the master that he would be subdued physically if necessary in order to take him off the vessel. The fishing vessel sank 55 minutes after it was abandoned. The owner sued the Coast Guard for loss of the vessel.

Over a strong dissent, the court held that the USCG decision to require that the vessel be evacuated when lives were at risk was protected by the discretionary function exception and that the federal government was immune from liability on that basis, even if the decision to order the evacuation was negligent. Thames Shipyard and Repair Co. v. United States, No. 02-1619 (1st Cir., November 26, 2003). Dissenting Opinion. Source: HK Law>>



USCG May Forcibly Evacuate Vessel in Distress
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Old 20-11-2008, 19:09   #98
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Hi all, I sympathize with the Olden's in the loss of their boat, but I would also like to make a statement to support the Coast Gaurd. Alot of times if the Coasties make the decision to take the crew from a ship and the ship then survives lots of people tend to criticize them and say that they they are "adrinaline junkies", "power mad",or some other derogatory term. The caosties are anything but that, they risk thier lives to save our sorry buts when we get into trouble and to their credit they do a dam*ed fine job, but they are also human like you and I and sometimes they make mistakes but they are in no way not responsible for their actions, my uncle was a coastie and has told me of a decsion they made once in the triangle it seemed to them that the cutter was going down, but there was no water coming in so there was nothing they could do it was just sinking, so they abandoned the ship and they had to take pictures of it going down just to PROVE TO SUPIRIORS that they hadn't sold it to someone but apperantly it was just a pocket of gas because if you look at the pictures it shows the ship going down then coming back up. that true story was to show that the coasties are responsible for their actions. Although they are criticized by people all the time the deserve our utmost respect becuase if it weren't for them just imagine how many of us wouldn't be here now. just food for thought.
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Old 20-11-2008, 19:44   #99
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Still Raining-
MAYDAY is for imminent loss of life or property...WE NEED HELP NOW!
PAN PAN (pronounced pahn pahn) is for an URGENT situation... WE ARE TAKING ON WATER, WILL SINK IN A FEW HOURS or WE HAVE RUN OUT OF FUEL, DRIFTING TO SEAWARD.
SECURITY (prononced secur-i-tay) is for safety, WE ARE DRAGGING ANCHOR, YOU HAD BETTER MOVE OUT OF OUR WAY
All these types of VHF transmissions are made "in the clear" on channel 16, meaning they are addressed to everyone. You don't target the Coast Guard with a MAYDAY call, the threat is so severe you want any boat to help. PAN PAN is also for any boat as is SECURITY. If you call the Coast Guard directly, "STATION CASTLE HILL, CASTLE HILL, CASTLE HILL.. " you are requesting the Coast Guard only.
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Old 20-11-2008, 20:53   #100
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Roger that...I knew most of that ,what I was meaning was raido telaphone or SSB type transmissions that would be relayed to the CG asking for 1 crew medievac for instance..

Sorry for the confusion..I seem to be missunderstood a lot latly.

Hey by the way... reguarding PAN PAN...The Coasties were using that a lot this past year when there was an overdue boat comming from Hawaii..They Would say PAN PAN and then anounce to be on lookout for the boat..???? Works both ways I guess.

Thanks for Security..I didnt know that one..
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Old 23-11-2008, 12:04   #101
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Very, very late to this thread.

My only comment is quit beating yourselves up. I just read all 100 posts and everything I have read was fair and balanced.
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Old 23-11-2008, 12:27   #102
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. I just read all 100 posts and everything I have read was fair and balanced.
Yeah Dan….we don’t want to O’Reilly…the folks up! (sorry couldn’t resist)
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Old 27-11-2008, 22:26   #103
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The owner

I am the owner, Shannon. Everything on the boat was sound and we did not panic in any way at all; I am an airline pilot of 12 years (20 years of flying) and have handled some severe mishaps in my career (to include a full loss of flight controls: my tail ripped itself apart) At the video of our rescue we felt we had finally found calm seas, but ready for worse, as forecasted. We went through 50 foot waves and over 70mph winds for 3 days. We are only one of three boats lost in this freak weather as far as we know: one an 118 foot Ketch, and a 42' Catamaran abandoned also near our position. The Cat had a vessel pick them up (calmer seas) and take them to Turkey. We were lucky to go to Bermuda! The other boat, which our insurance is handling, is a 118 foot Ketch. The boat is destroyed, but they lost all communications and could not ask for a rescue. Their EPIRB went in the water, and all communications destroyed. I duct taped the Satellite phone to my chest so I have a hard time understanding this. The 118' Ketch with 8 full time crew also lost their helms person overboard (without a tether! but successfully rescued.) They flooded the engine room and caught fire. They had no choice except to limp the boat into Bermuda. My insurance man says it's the most beautiful boat he's ever seen.

You can sit in your slip (or anchor) and judge, but I've seen hell, and non forecasted hell. My family is alive, so I believe that we made the right decision to leave our prized yacht. All 5 cremembers were highly experienced and never sea sick through the whole experience. We did our best. Judge as you will, but we've lost every material thing we owned, and prevented it in every way possible, so only kindness and not judgement is accepted at this point.

My daughter was not the deciding factor. She is strong and tough and always safe and secure. She hung on to her home and her toys. Please do not judge us anymore. We have lost enough.

Love,
Shannon
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Old 28-11-2008, 02:34   #104
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Shannon:
Than you very much for your report.
We were very saddened to learn of you harrowing experiences, and the loss of "Panache". We are very pleased that nobody was seriously injured, and that the rescue was successful.
All of your brethren, at CruisersForum, wish you and yours all the best in whatever your future holds.
I hope you'll keep us up to date, as "things" sort themselves out.
Very best regards,
Gord
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Old 28-11-2008, 04:24   #105
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Shannon

Not all here judged you.

Would you please contact me by private message? I would like to send you guys a Christmas present. I would consider it an act of generosity on your part if you would accept it.



Take care

Jim
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