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Old 29-11-2010, 06:22   #61
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Thats area is bad for storms, we got cought in a gale storm (65mph gust 10+ waves in our Chrysler C-26 if It wasn't for shreading both sails and being grounded a few hundred yards off shore we would have rode it out. oh that and I was near hypothermic. Hey it was our first time on the coast also.
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Old 30-11-2010, 06:00   #62
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The responsibility for the integrity of a boat's thru hulls, keel bolts, rudder, and all other systems is the responsibility of the yacht's owner when she leaves the dock, regardless of whether he/she is sailing it, loaning it to friends, having it delivered by a crew, or chartering it out for a week. The yacht owner is responsible for doing the maintenance and repairs, and /or engaging and supervising qualified professionals to do it, if he wishes to avoid a potential loss at sea. Those who enjoy the vessel whether it be the owner and his family,guests,delivery crews or charterers, are entitled to know that the boat is sound and seaworthy - that a marine survey has been done, and all deficiencies corrected . But as surveys are only done every 2-3 years, complete maintenance records should be available, as well as full insurance for the yacht'r replacement cost,
liability for damage to other yachts and injury to those on board. This is one reason that the charter companies in the Caribbean offer newer yachts, hopefully with less problems.
However, even brand new yachts not built for the high seas, can suffer serious problems and break downs in bad weather. Again emphasing the importance of carrying EPIRBS and sailing along well traveled shipping lanes, versus isolated areas of the South Pacific.
Survival suits (cost $200 & up) are essential for off shore, and while they are bulky, they are not heavy, and will delay the onset of hypothermia.
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Old 30-11-2010, 06:53   #63
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Make sure that all holes through the boat are sound and in excellent condition (thru hulls,stuffing box,rudder post). Critical amounts of water can threaten a boat's stability , steering capability, and upright position in the water, if enough saltwater enters through reverse siphons thro bilge pump hoses or if keel bolts were loose or leaking. Not all of these problems can be fixed at sea, even when a high volume dewatering pump is onboard. Another Cruiser Forum post mentioned the gasoline powered 250 gpm cg-6 ( cost appx $200), but few recreational boats carry this as cumbersome to strap on deck. But this may be carried by "chase boats" in high charter areas like the BVI's.
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Old 30-11-2010, 10:47   #64
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This is now four days since the USCG released the news item of the rescue. There has been no further news posted online as to hull sightings. Can it be assumed that she sank after the rescue, in this is a well traveled area 90 miles east of Norfolk- there are so many boats coming down the Chesapeake and headed either to Bermuda or down through the Bahamas. So it looks like there won't be a "post mortem" on any salvaged hull ! She went down; the USCG rescued the crew. End of story and speculation.
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Old 30-11-2010, 10:56   #65
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Well if she was in the Gulf Stream as suggested I'd say she'll be around
50 - 90 odd miles Ntheast of last known position and heading for Iceland....
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Old 30-11-2010, 11:05   #66
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This is now four days since the USCG released the news item of the rescue. There has been no further news posted online as to hull sightings. Can it be assumed that she sank after the rescue, in this is a well traveled area 90 miles east of Norfolk- there are so many boats coming down the Chesapeake and headed either to Bermuda or down through the Bahamas. So it looks like there won't be a "post mortem" on any salvaged hull ! She went down; the USCG rescued the crew. End of story and speculation.
C'mon now! With a forum name like 'gossip', your post is a bit surprising, eh?

The US recently marked the 48th anniversary of the assassination of President John F. Kennedy and the speculation continues there, so let's give this incident a bit more time to play out.

Also, keep in mind that if the boat was in the Gulf Stream, it could quickly get far away from where it was abandoned. "Shipping lane traffic" isn't what it was 50 years ago. There are a lot fewer vessels out there and they have much smaller crews, so the odds of seeing a small boat are pretty remote.

There was a boat several years ago returning to the Chesapeake from Bermuda that was abandoned with the deck awash. I believe it ended up in Newfoundland about 10 days later.

Fair Winds,
Mike
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Old 07-12-2010, 02:41   #67
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I noticed that the life raft is not floating behind the yacht. If I was skipper, I would have put that overboard to inflate and prepare it for use as plan B. Better safe than sorry. If the boat was laid to heave to, one man could pump and one man could prepare the raft.
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Old 14-12-2010, 12:08   #68
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I am the owner of the S/V Celadon (1992 Beneteau First 45f5) and she is still afloat at sea as confirmed early this morning, 18 days after being abandoned...

I can't begin to express how utterly frustrating and sickening it feels to not have been onboard at the time and been able to bring her safely back to port, or continue on to her initial destination in St. Thomas. She's a very solid boat, having been sailed extensively in the Pacific and the last four years in the Chesapeake Bay. On the West Coast, I sailed her in 20-30 ft. seas and winds gusting to 40+, and she handled beautifully. Prior to leaving on this trip, where I had intended to spend five months in the Caribbean, Celadon was nearly completely re-done from stem to stern and everything from the wind vane all the way to the bottom of her keel. I'll be happy to provide some additional details, as there is a lot of speculation in all the posts in this thread as to what may have happened. She was also surveyed (both hull and rig) a week before departure and received a clean bill of health. Most of the running rigging had been redone in the last month. Everything below the waterline had been significantly upgraded in the past eighteen months--Heavy Duty Groco Seacocks all-around and the bottom was stripped, additional layers of fiberglass added and three coats of barrier coat and bottom paint.

As for the comments about Keel Bolts, all of them were inspected by the surveyor and myself and all were in perfect condition--they were dry and painted-over and did not show any signs of rust or fracturing or anything that would signal a potential failure whatsoever.

Celadon had a brand new bilge pump installed a week before departure and it was fully tested along with the manual pump in the cockpit, both of which worked very well. She was always a dry boat--the only water I ever got in the bilge would be a cup or two resulting from rain coming down the mast.

As for safety equipment that I noted some discussion, she had the full complement of flares, lifejackets, etc. and a liferaft that was one week old. There was an EPIRB left onboard (but not activated) and a SPOT tracking device that was taken when the boat was abandoned. Perhaps this is what has proved ultimately the most frustrating to me since if the EPIRB had been activated and lashed to the deck or the SPOT device left onboard, I could have had a vessel tow her in and I'd still have my $300K boat and property rather than facing the reality of not only losing her and extensive gear, but only being able to recover a fraction through insurance.

Hopefully I've been able to answer some of the questions/speculation. I'll probably never really know what actually did or did not happen out there, but you can surely appreciate why it is such a mystery to me given all that was done to keep her in top shape and, in many ways, significantly upgraded from her original specs and equipment.

Fair Winds...
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Old 14-12-2010, 12:23   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Celadon View Post
I am the owner of the S/V Celadon (1992 Beneteau First 45f5) and she is still afloat at sea as confirmed early this morning, 18 days after being abandoned...

I can't begin to express how utterly frustrating and sickening it feels to not have been onboard at the time and been able to bring her safely back to port, or continue on to her initial destination in St. Thomas. She's a very solid boat, having been sailed extensively in the Pacific and the last four years in the Chesapeake Bay. On the West Coast, I sailed her in 20-30 ft. seas and winds gusting to 40+, and she handled beautifully. Prior to leaving on this trip, where I had intended to spend five months in the Caribbean, Celadon was nearly completely re-done from stem to stern and everything from the wind vane all the way to the bottom of her keel. I'll be happy to provide some additional details, as there is a lot of speculation in all the posts in this thread as to what may have happened. She was also surveyed (both hull and rig) a week before departure and received a clean bill of health. Most of the running rigging had been redone in the last month. Everything below the waterline had been significantly upgraded in the past eighteen months--Heavy Duty Groco Seacocks all-around and the bottom was stripped, additional layers of fiberglass added and three coats of barrier coat and bottom paint.

As for the comments about Keel Bolts, all of them were inspected by the surveyor and myself and all were in perfect condition--they were dry and painted-over and did not show any signs of rust or fracturing or anything that would signal a potential failure whatsoever.

Celadon had a brand new bilge pump installed a week before departure and it was fully tested along with the manual pump in the cockpit, both of which worked very well. She was always a dry boat--the only water I ever got in the bilge would be a cup or two resulting from rain coming down the mast.

As for safety equipment that I noted some discussion, she had the full complement of flares, lifejackets, etc. and a liferaft that was one week old. There was an EPIRB left onboard (but not activated) and a SPOT tracking device that was taken when the boat was abandoned. Perhaps this is what has proved ultimately the most frustrating to me since if the EPIRB had been activated and lashed to the deck or the SPOT device left onboard, I could have had a vessel tow her in and I'd still have my $300K boat and property rather than facing the reality of not only losing her and extensive gear, but only being able to recover a fraction through insurance.

Hopefully I've been able to answer some of the questions/speculation. I'll probably never really know what actually did or did not happen out there, but you can surely appreciate why it is such a mystery to me given all that was done to keep her in top shape and, in many ways, significantly upgraded from her original specs and equipment.

Fair Winds...
So can we assume that this was a Delivery then... as its a mystery to you... and what had the skipper and crew to say about it all...
Were they Pro's... or friends/amateurs doing a favour... sorry to be nosey but it may be of use/interest to someone thinking of having their boat delivered...
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Old 14-12-2010, 12:26   #70
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Fair winds to you as well Celadon and thanks for the detail. I'm not sure I would have been as good-natured about it as you, in view of the speculative and accusatory comments that were made by some.

Will everyone here by satisfied? Of course not, but that is the nature of arm-chair quarterbacking and, with the news that the boat is still afloat, the benefit of hindsight. None of us are you and none of us were there with you. Others may attempt to suggest that you should have stayed with her to the extent that she is still afloat. But it was you who had to make a decision concerning the safety our yourself and crew and to do so without prescience.

Sorry for the loss of a boat that you so obviously loved.

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Old 14-12-2010, 13:06   #71
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As I said, unfortunately I was not on the boat and believe that if I had been aboard, I would have stayed with her. I've sailed her in some pretty tough conditions and know what she's capable of and because of my knowledge of all the maintenance and upgrading that's been done, as well as independent surveys, etc. I have no reason to believe any thru hull or keel bolts could have failed.

To answer Boatman's question, yes...it was a hired, [pre-]paid delivery crew with resumes, etc. I was not on board because I was going to need the time to take care of things stateside before heading to the Caribbean for five months. If you want to hear what they have to say, you'll have to find them yourself as I am unable to locate or make contact with them.
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Old 14-12-2010, 13:15   #72
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I can't begin to express how utterly frustrating and sickening it feels to not have been onboard at the time and been able to bring her safely back to port, or continue on to her initial destination in St. Thomas....
Quote:
Originally Posted by Celadon View Post
Hopefully I've been able to answer some of the questions/speculation. I'll probably never really know what actually did or did not happen out there, but you can surely appreciate why it is such a mystery to me given all that was done to keep her in top shape and, in many ways, significantly upgraded from her original specs and equipment.

Fair Winds...
The owner was not on the boat, and seems as puzzled as the rest of us as to why she was abandoned.
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Old 14-12-2010, 13:19   #73
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As I said, unfortunately I was not on the boat and believe that if I had been aboard, I would have stayed with her. I've sailed her in some pretty tough conditions and know what she's capable of and because of my knowledge of all the maintenance and upgrading that's been done, as well as independent surveys, etc. I have no reason to believe any thru hull or keel bolts could have failed.

To answer Boatman's question, yes...it was a hired, [pre-]paid delivery crew with resumes, etc. I was not on board because I was going to need the time to take care of things stateside before heading to the Caribbean for five months. If you want to hear what they have to say, you'll have to find them yourself as I am unable to locate or make contact with them.
Man, that sucks! Sorry for your loss. Too bad you can't post the names. I sure would feel bad for the next guy that hires them to deliver his boat, and something happens again.

Ralph
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Old 14-12-2010, 13:21   #74
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Wow, sorry I misread your original post. Now I am especially sorry for your loss.

Brad
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Old 14-12-2010, 13:27   #75
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I am the owner of the S/V Celadon (1992 Beneteau First 45f5) and she is still afloat at sea as confirmed early this morning, 18 days after being abandoned...
The original post and news stated the boat was taking on water from an unknown source. If so, then the boat has sunk by now, wouldn't one think. If someone knows it's a float and where, then a salvage is in order.

And I'm sorry for your loss if that be the case.
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