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Old 27-11-2010, 09:38   #16
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I guess I don't understand the need to deride any sailor who needs to be rescued. I can't imagine anyone would abandon their boat unless they really felt there was no other safe option. It just strikes me as hubris to imply that those sitting on the sidelines armchair quarterbacking would have handled it differently because they are "saltier" or have larger testicles or what ever. When ever I hear of rescues, I never think that if it had been me, I would have been tougher, meaner or more likely to do x, y, z. Who here hasn't made decisions they've regretted? I always feel sympathy for those involved and think "there but for the grace of God go I".
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Old 27-11-2010, 09:53   #17
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But Mimsy.. would'nt these threads be ever so boring...
Just one initial post that everyone reads and moves on...
or... with a succession of... what a shame... how sad... Ohhh Wow....???
Whats the point of being here if not to read other peoples opinions/options under similar circumstances/conditions...
Why do people read books by others about sea going... to see if they can maybe learn something... later they may find out the author was full of **** when they get out there...
Just like a lot of the Pilot Books for coastal cruising are actually written by people driving down the coast in cars and pinching local knowledge as they go...
cruisers buy them in ignorance of that and think they've bought 'experience'....
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Old 27-11-2010, 10:10   #18
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Camden sailor rescued off North Carolina - Lynda Clancy - Rockland - Camden - Knox - The Herald Gazette

I think we're being a little harsh on the 3" of water. Evidently they had been "manually pumping" and still had 3" of water.

We don't know how long they had been pumping but they called the Coast Guard at 6:52AM - just after sunrise. They may have waited (and pumped) for a long time to avoid a night rescue - dangerous for everyone.

I once had to pump for an hour. By the time I was spelled, sinking had taken on a certain attraction.

Carl
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Old 27-11-2010, 10:19   #19
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Boatman there is a big difference between saying " I wonder if X, Y or Z would have worked" and "they're just a bunch of pansies".

You can say whatever you like, however you like. I can also say what I think about the attitudes displayed as well. That's life on the interwebs...
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Old 27-11-2010, 10:27   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mimsy View Post
Boatman there is a big difference between saying " I wonder if X, Y or Z would have worked" and "they're just a bunch of pansies".

You can say whatever you like, however you like. I can also say what I think about the attitudes displayed as well. That's life on the interwebs...
Sorry Mimsy... I said [alternate for of "cats"].... and yes you can.. thats the joy of freedom of speech...
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Old 27-11-2010, 10:41   #21
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Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt.

Abraham Lincoln
16th president of US (1809 - 1865)
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Old 27-11-2010, 10:46   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CarlF View Post

Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt.

Abraham Lincoln
16th president of US (1809 - 1865)
Been called one all my life... why change now...
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Old 27-11-2010, 12:38   #23
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Looking at the last link, she seems to be sitting pretty low in the water but might just be the pic?

Question, any ideas as to water seeping in around the bilge pump? I have tapered plugs on my boat, but would not help in this case. Any ides on how to stop or slow down a leak like the one mentioned? From the link:
According to Weydert, the men were bound for Bermuda when water began seeping in around the bilge pump. The sailors were able to manually pump the boat, keeping it steady with three or four inches of water in its hull, while waiting for rescue.

Also curious why towing the vessel in was mentioned? Again from the link:
The Coast Guard lifted the sailors off the deck, leaving the Celedon to drift until seas calmed enough to hopefully tow the boat back into shore. The Coast Guard had broadcast an emergency marine notice to mariners about the drifting vessel.

I wonder if it eventually sank?

I don't see a dink or liferaft on the deck in the picture. I bet they had one or both. If you had the time and energy, would you have one or the other on deck?

Sorry for the questions, but it is how you learn....right?

Ralph
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Old 27-11-2010, 12:41   #24
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flic hyde

This comment from a sailor of 55 years reflects her research as to the type of sailing yacht Celadon was,and reflects USCG documentation online site that her hull number was BEY JA 192L 192 - she was a 1991 Beneteau First series 456, 45.5 ft length,13.9 ft beam, 18 gross tons. So which Benetaeu is she? She is believed to be the model described online at sailingmagazine.com/feb 2003, and this article has many comments, as does the website Sailnet. However, no one of these problems has been pinpointed to have occurred on the Celadon which appears to have flooded, drifted and sunk (no search'n rescue /salvage).Older yachts are often under-insured, and the comment as to salvage & insurance claim objectives are totally without foundation! (The yacht had been documented only 3 weeks ago,as shown online USCG)
The weather for these waters from the Eastern Seaboard to Bermuda for the post Thanksgiving period were not under gale/storm warning. Squalls do occur, and the Gulf Stream can be rough. But on this day the wind direction did not appear to be in the NE through NW quadrants of greater danger in crossing the Gulf Stream.
In this timely evacuation of crew to safety (and the crew's safety comes FIRST), the yacht's location in well traveled waters was an enabling factor - in contrast to the 55 days at sea and same day rescue (Nov 26 2010) of 3 teenage boys in a 12 ft aluminum skiff which drifted 800 miles
in the South Pacific in isolated waters. ( online at kentucky.com).
In the instant case of the Celadon, the owner had a life raft aboard,an EPIRB, VHF radio. The MAYDAY was heard by a passing super tanker the Atlantic Leo registered in Hong Kong which stood by, while the USCG responded to a VHF MAYDAY message sent approximately 40 minutes after the flooding of the yacht began. The timeline reveals another 45 minutes (of bailing) til the helicopter arrived.So the crew bailed for 90 minutes trying to save Celadon.
This was no panic and jump ship. The yacht was flooding and was not recovered or recoverable.
So let us praise the USCG for their superb team rescue, with no injuries; the captain of the Atlantic Leo for stopping & standing by, and the crew for making a timely decision to call for help at a time when they could still jump into the water & swim to the helicopter's lowered basket - a further delay could have required USCG swimmers in the water too. Lastly, our condolences to the yacht's owners for their loss and what must be their relief that no one was drowned or injured.
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Old 27-11-2010, 12:56   #25
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Bummer! 90 miles out - so close, yet so far...
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Old 27-11-2010, 13:19   #26
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Re: Water "seeping around the bilge pump". My take is this is an error in reporting and/or an inadequate description of the problem that could have been caused by stress/exhaustion, etc.

Typically the bilge pump sits in or near the lowest part of the bilge and the water gets lifted via a flexible hose to an exit point at/near the hull/deck joint. If the pump was cycling on and off, the standing water in the hose would drop back to the bilge pump and appear to be "seeping". This might also happen if there is a blockage in the hose or the exit point which can easily happen as hair, lint, dirt and other debris floating in the bilge get pulled through the pump and hose.

Fair Winds,
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Old 27-11-2010, 13:36   #27
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Sounds to me more likely failed keel bolts.... especially with the remark about water seeping by the bilge pump...
I've had this happen to me on a bilge keeler in the 80's.... the first 3 bolts on the starboard keel had broken through sheer age and when she was lifted out the keel was literally hanging by the 2 remaining bolts with a gap of 3in's at the leading edge of the keel....
We were very lucky...
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Old 27-11-2010, 13:37   #28
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Thanks, Mike. I asked because it didn't seem likely as the source of the leak. If the crew had checked the thru-hulls, packing, and rudder....might I ask if water might be entering at the keel bolts? I don't know about Beneteaus, but my Hunter has bolts close to the bilge pump.
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Old 27-11-2010, 13:46   #29
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Failed keel bolts - definitely a possibility!
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Old 27-11-2010, 14:06   #30
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SailNet. discusses (july 11,2001 posting) "keel & keel suspension - my keel was bolted on using normal bolts (not pin bolts w/nuts),meaning the tightening the keel bolts could not be done without breaking the watertight seals. Hence I had significant leakage whilst sailing. All keel bolts are now replaced w/pin bolts w/nuts on top. The glass fibre bottom frame supporting the keel area is not sufficiently dimensional. Check thoroughly for cracks / get prepared for heavy repair jobs. Electrical wiring is poorly dimensioned & systemized..Check propeller stern tubes (bronze & corrosion) & sealings,as well as rudder bearings."Latter ends what Sail Net says. Next Sailing magazine feb 2003 says "partial molded liners can come adrift from hull....delamination on chainplates ...water damage to bulkheads below is often a sign that chainplates are leaking....problems with keel bolts or "gaps in keel to hull joint" are among other problems mentioned for the Beneteau 456 First series, as reported online.
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