Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 18-12-2010, 19:37   #166
Senior Cruiser
 
Therapy's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: W Florida
Boat: The Jon boat still, plus a 2007 SeaCat.
Posts: 6,894
Images: 4
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeepFrz View Post
Water 3" above the sole shouldn't be a problem on most boats sitting dockside or anchored in a sheltered location. Water 3" above the sole would be a completely different thing in a rough sea. Imagine healing over 30 deg. and back up to level and at the same time pitching on a wave with that much water loose in your boat.

I have heard stories from people with round bottom boats with no bilges that complain of water going everywhere when just a few gallons are spilled. A boat I sailed on in the Caribbean had NO bilge and it would have been horrendous with that much water sloshing around. The batteries were above the sole but would have been drenched as would the engine and pretty much everything else.
Did I miss something?

First I remember 3" of water.

Now it is 3" of water above the sole.

What is (was) it?

Either way, too many questions and too much speculation.
__________________

__________________
Therapy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-12-2010, 19:55   #167
Registered User
 
mbianka's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 2,125
Images: 1
Big storm is heading up off the east coast of the U.S. tonight. Hope the boat makes it through it where ever it is. If it is still afloat that is. I love to hear a happy ending to this story!
__________________

__________________
Capt. Mike
mbianka is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-12-2010, 21:18   #168
Eternal Member
 
Chief Engineer's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: North of Baltimore
Boat: Ericson 27 & 18' Herrmann Catboat
Posts: 3,798
Where is the Royal Potahto I'm sorry the common tater?

I was trying to peruse this and it seems disjointed
__________________
Chief Engineer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-12-2010, 13:06   #169
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 6
a yacht broker has mentioned several other things he looks for which have not previously been discussed, and which apply to any used boat purchase - has the vessel ever run aground and the keel joint repaired - he suggests that delamination sometimes occurs, & results in flooding. This is a general comment, not specifically related to any one vessel. He also observes the importance of limpholes to drain closed compartments. Modern fiberglass yachts often have compartments sealed off away from examination of surveyors & owners, which can absorb & retain water. Again this is a general comment relating to purchasing a used boat & is not specific in anyway to the discussion at hand.
__________________
harbour buff is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-12-2010, 07:14   #170
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Washington, DC
Boat: Beneteau First 45f5 - Celadon
Posts: 13
Here's the Coast Guard Report from my Freedom of Information Act request. Looks like they trim it down to a few pages and redact names but the basics are there. All times are Zulu if you're trying to figure out the time and date stamps on the report.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf SV CELADON USCG Report.pdf (239.8 KB, 220 views)
__________________
Celadon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-12-2010, 07:39   #171
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Washington, DC
Boat: Beneteau First 45f5 - Celadon
Posts: 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by harbour buff View Post
a yacht broker has mentioned several other things he looks for which have not previously been discussed, and which apply to any used boat purchase - has the vessel ever run aground and the keel joint repaired - he suggests that delamination sometimes occurs, & results in flooding. This is a general comment, not specifically related to any one vessel. He also observes the importance of limpholes to drain closed compartments. Modern fiberglass yachts often have compartments sealed off away from examination of surveyors & owners, which can absorb & retain water. Again this is a general comment relating to purchasing a used boat & is not specific in anyway to the discussion at hand.
Nope. My boat was never run aground and there was never any repairs done to the keel joint. A surveyor and myself checked all keel bolts a few days before departure and there was not an ounce of rust or corrosion nor any signs of cracking or other damage to them. If there had ever been any issue with the keel joint then surely I would have had some water intrusion at some point but as I've said earlier, the only time there was ever water in the bilge was a result of rain coming down the mast so I had to pump out a whopping pint or so of water a month. I had all the plumbing upgraded to heavy duty hoses and ones that would have been at, or below, the waterline were redone to add vented loops that went about five feet above the waterline to account for the effect of heeling over significantly.
__________________
Celadon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-12-2010, 07:57   #172
Registered User
 
mbianka's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 2,125
Images: 1
Thanks for the report. I guess there have been no more sightings. We've had some pretty nasty storms out in those waters. I still hope you get a surprise call from some far away location saying the boat has been found.
__________________
Capt. Mike
mbianka is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-12-2010, 08:29   #173
Registered User
 
Tia Bu's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: South Carolina
Boat: 40' Jeanneau
Posts: 454
Thanks for the CG report, Celadon. Water three inches above "THE WATERLINE" would put it about waist-high in my boat. About half full. The engine and batteries would be flooded. It was dark or early dawn (most of the action took place an hour before sunrise on 11/26, if I'm reading the information correctly?). There was 30 knots of wind and 12 foot seas. They were 90 miles off Currituck. But that puts them about 130 miles from the nearest shelter (Norfolk- which was probably upwind)-- or nearly 200 miles (once you round a huge shoal) from Morehead City (upcurrent). The CG helicopter informed them they could only stay on scene 30 minutes. It was late November-- not good swimming weather off the NC coast.

Although the water had stopped rising, they still had not identified the source of the leak.

They had to think fast. If you take the hard and fast rule that human life is far more important than property, this information casts their decision in a different light, IMHO.

I'm very sorry for the loss of your great boat, Celadon. But I'm glad everybody is still alive to talk about it (or not talk, as it may be ).

One interesting question, though, is what sort of leak would let that volume of water in and then stop? A dripless shaft seal maybe? The exhaust system? Both would be awfully hard to find in the dark.

Am I missing something in my reading of the report (a real possibility)? There was no loss of life, and, as far as I know, no serious injury in this incident. That's awfully doggone important, in my book. By the way, as far as I know, I do not know anyone involved in this incident at all. My only knowledge of the incident is what I've read in this thread.
__________________
Tia Bu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-12-2010, 08:48   #174
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 647
The report stated "there was water over the deck board and the vessel stopped taking on water"

What is the deck board??
__________________
lancelot9898 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-12-2010, 08:49   #175
Freelance Delivery Skipper..
 
boatman61's Avatar

Community Sponsor
Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: UK/Portugal
Posts: 20,189
Images: 2
Send a message via Skype™ to boatman61
pirate

In that type of boat... if anything like my 'Bendi's' would be about ankle deep in the saloon...
__________________


Born To Be Wild
boatman61 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-12-2010, 08:51   #176
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Santa Cruz
Boat: Boatless Again
Posts: 4,310
I was impressed by the speed and depth of the CG response. Its nice to know they are watching our backs. The other lesson is a repeat--if you call for help, you are going to be under heavy pressure to abandon your boat when that help arrives.

It will be good if someone posts the crew's story after the lawyers are finished--its a tough decision as to when to call for rescue.

Last week we were coming down the Florida coast in a cold and strong northerly when the bilge pump started running almost continuously. Went through the drill of trying to figure out the source--was it the keel bolts?--was it the rudder seals I had just replaced?? Figured out it must be coming from the stern, so climbed into the lazarette and found water sloshing. The most likely source had to be the vent to the propane tanks., where the hose had come off the through-hull fitting. The fitting was above the waterline, but close enough to it that the waves were hitting it.

The vent fitting was behind the propane locker, so I could see exactly what was happeing, and I wasn't going to try to remove the locker in that seaway. The first fix attempt was to hang upside down over the transom, jam a rag covered with silicon into the outside clamshell over the through-hull, then hammer a pine plug in to keep it in place. Then bail out the lazarette. That solved the problem, but I got soaking wet and my polypro top got covered in silicone during the battle.

The things running through my mind were:

where is the closest port--St Augustine 30 miles to weather, or Canaveral 60 miles away.

what do I do if the bilge pump fails or fails to keep up--there is a high volume powered backup, a manual (which I just replaced), and the engine raw water pump.

What are my resources--just me and a seasick wife.
What is the weather forecast--improving conditions.
How/when to call for help--we were within VHF range of the CG.

Fortunately, I didn't have to go past the first fix attempt, but I would have probably issued a pan-pan if the water kept rising, and a mayday when it started to reach to the top of the batteries under the sole.
__________________
donradcliffe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-12-2010, 09:08   #177
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 647
Quote:
Originally Posted by donradcliffe View Post
The other lesson is a repeat--if you call for help, you are going to be under heavy pressure to abandon your boat when that help arrives.

.

That I suspect would be true, however from the report it appears that a pump was offered so not sure if heavy pressure to abandon the vessel was the case here.
"R6043 offered a pump to attempt to dewater the vessel and did inform the persons onboard that the helicopter could only remain onscene for 30 minutes"
__________________
lancelot9898 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-12-2010, 09:13   #178
Freelance Delivery Skipper..
 
boatman61's Avatar

Community Sponsor
Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: UK/Portugal
Posts: 20,189
Images: 2
Send a message via Skype™ to boatman61
pirate

I think I've already posted this event but I Pan Pan'd when water was discovered over the sole and pumps failed/broke not long after... theres a knee deep 4ft at the top bilge in the V-hulls of Catalac's.... thankfully no access to the engine compartment till knee deep in central section.
A boat was sent out pretty soon after to 'stand by' in case we went down... however no Mayday was called... it was the Spanish CG Salvadre's decision based on conditions and they accessed a 50/50 chance in those conditions...
Great bunch of guys... and no charge for the reassurance of their presence.
Must add... we were only 7miles from the port
__________________


Born To Be Wild
boatman61 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-12-2010, 10:00   #179
Registered User
 
nv5l's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Liveaboard
Boat: Allied Luders 33, Hull 98, 1971
Posts: 393
Images: 1
I just finished reading this thread -- was a bit late to the party. I'm obviously sorry about the boat and happy the crew made it off safely, however, I found many of the comments thought provoking, and plan to make some changes to my systems based on what I read.

The only problem is that I didn't get to read about how Obama fit into the picture -- it had already been censored. I know he has a new water dog, but was he somehow responsible for the problem, or did he, and Bo, help with the rescue?
__________________
don
NV5L
S/V Aurora
nv5l is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-12-2010, 01:05   #180
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: San Francisco Bay Area
Boat: Ericson 27
Posts: 1
I'm sorry for your loss. It must be very frustrating to have to deal with the consequences of the skipper's decisions when you had no control over the situation.

Have you still had no contact with the crew? That they did not contact you immediately is very puzzling, particularly given their unusual behavior of failing to take measures to allow the vessel to be recovered, such as keeping the SPOT device active for as long as possible, or activating the EPRIB. The other unexplained circumstance is why they would refuse an offer of additional pumps and instead elect to abandon, even though the situation appeared to be stable.

There was some suggestion that they're not communicating on advice of lawyers; but this would be unfortunate. If they behaved professionally, and can account for their actions, the forthright path is clear. On the other hand, clamming up behind a lawyer to hide malfeasance, particularly when the impact is destruction of another's livelihood, is a vile and disgraceful practice, whether or not it is the norm.

I can see how the situation could have been in their shoes; they're stuck on someone's crappy lemon of a boat, slowly sinking, facing the prospect of the end of their time. Perhaps they sought the leak heroically, but some malfunctioning equipment or neglected maintenance thwarted them. Bitter at being deceived to skipper a messed up boat, any personal goodwill they had to save the boat slips away. They just want to get out alive.

But it's up to them to clear their names. Bitterness or shame or otherwise, there is no legitimate path but to own up and tell the owner what happened on the boat that he trusted them to deliver safely. Integrity is the only way to sail.
__________________

__________________
aaronwindy is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Crew Rescued from Catamaran catty Multihull Sailboats 7 06-08-2009 20:50
Catamaran disabled, Crew rescued Sunspot Baby Cruising News & Events 8 29-10-2008 23:33
Yacht Abandoned - Crew Rescued GordMay Pacific & South China Sea 64 26-09-2008 07:59



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 16:35.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.