Russian Destroyer Frees Hijacked Tanker

[Curmudgeon]

Originally Posted by fstbttms

That's not what you said. You said you'd destroy every boat capable of doing 10 knots until there were none left. And most of the footage I've seen of the priate vessels indicates they frequently use the fishing "pangas" common to the Somali coast, all of which I'd guess are capable of 10 knots.

Yes, that's a difficult issue. Depends on the size of the motor I suppose.

[Misiu]

Originally Posted by Curmudgeon

Well, my boat isn't capable of 10 knots.

But the short answer is yes if my boat is in Somalia and is one of those big RIBs that the pirates use. I don't think it's that difficult to distinguish between a fishing boat and a speedboat. And frankly, if some mistakes are made, that's life.

I don't think Somali pirates use high tech ribs. They usually use pangas, the same boats fishermen all over the world use...

BBC NEWS | Africa | Somali pirate boat 'captured'

[jkd]

I was reading this morning that some diplomats of other countries were wondering aloud about this "release" of these pirates. It seems there are some speculating that they were released in a similar manner that so many died of "brain hemorrhage" during the bad old days in Russia. (ie a 9mm brain hemorrhage)

John

[Mariness]

Originally Posted by jkd

I was reading this morning that some diplomats of other countries were wondering aloud about this "release" of these pirates. It seems there are some speculating that they were released in a similar manner that so many died of "brain hemorrhage" during the bad old days in Russia. (ie a 9mm brain hemorrhage)

John

So, they just vanished - "released", but never seen again?
That can't work to anyone's favor. There are plenty of arguments against killing them at all, but if you are going to do it that way, it has to be in the open. Shooting someone in the dark, "disappearing" them, just gives their compatriots reason to develop conspiracy theories and act out accordingly. I can see a rational disagreement about the best course of action here, but if this is true, I can't see any acceptable argument in its favor.

[Curmudgeon]

Originally Posted by Misiu

I don't think Somali pirates use high tech ribs. They usually use pangas, the same boats fishermen all over the world use...

BBC NEWS | Africa | Somali pirate boat 'captured'

I hadn't realized the extent of the logistical issues in distinguishing peaceful fishing boats from pirate boats. But that being said, something has to be done to attack their bases, destroy their boats, cut off their lines of supply and deprive them of the means to commit piracy. If the equipment is there, these pirate bosses will always find plenty of teenage boys with no other prospects in life to go out and attack the ships.

As things stand now, it's not much different that the Barbary pirates in the early 19th century, where European governments paid ever increasing amounts to bribe the pirate chieftans to leave ships bearing their flags alone and/or to return their sailors unharmed. It didn't work then, and it won't work now.

What worked is when, after Napoleon was defeated, the British Navy sacked Algiers twice, and subsequently the Barbary coast was taken over by the French, who put the pirates out of business.

[Fishman_Tx]

"Released in their boats without navigational aids.."
Hmm the "Capt. Bligh" solution? Works for me.

[goboatingnow]

There are two solutions

(a) bomb the place then invade it and essentially stay there for the foreseeable future using your tax dollars

(b) sort out the social and political problems that are causing this situation

[Curmudgeon]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

There are two solutions

(a) bomb the place then invade it and essentially stay there for the foreseeable future using your tax dollars

(b) sort out the social and political problems that are causing this situation

Both choices are impractical and outrageously expensive. Somalia has been ungoverned since 1991. Fixing Somalia is a separate issue from ending the piracy. The latter is a much more limited objective.

[Fishman_Tx]

Originally Posted by Fishman_Tx

"Released in their boats without navigational aids.."
Hmm the "Capt. Bligh" solution? Works for me.

Of course if they accidently backed over them, caught in the propwash,...whatever...

[RedBellies]

Originally Posted by Mariness

So, they just vanished - "released", but never seen again?
That can't work to anyone's favor. There are plenty of arguments against killing them at all, but if you are going to do it that way, it has to be in the open. Shooting someone in the dark, "disappearing" them, just gives their compatriots reason to develop conspiracy theories and act out accordingly. I can see a rational disagreement about the best course of action here, but if this is true, I can't see any acceptable argument in its favor.

I don't know about that. Over the course of a month, if most of your friends and neighbors went out to the local Piggly Wiggly (OK, Winn Dixie) for a quart of milk, and never came back, you'd not only think twice about your need for milk, you'd probably warn your new, replacement friends and neighbors that going out for milk might not be the best idea since the homogenization process.

Yes. I just compared piracy to a quick trip to the store. If it becomes the norm, as it seems to have done, then the response needs to be just as quick and just as merciless.

[TaoJones]

From the New York Times:

"Russia Frees Pirates it Seized Days Ago

"MOSCOW – Two days after Russian marines captured 10 Somali pirates in a much-ballyhooed high-seas shootout, freeing Russian crew members who had huddled for 20 hours in the dank safety of the engine room, Russia’s Defense Ministry on Friday announced an anticlimactic ending to the saga.

"They put the pirates back on their boat and set them free."

* * *

To read the entire article, go to:

Russia Frees Somali Pirates It Had Seized In Shootout - NYTimes.com

TaoJones

[Mariness]

Originally Posted by RedBellies

I don't know about that. Over the course of a month, if most of your friends and neighbors went out to the local Piggly Wiggly (OK, Winn Dixie) for a quart of milk, and never came back, you'd not only think twice about your need for milk, you'd probably warn your new, replacement friends and neighbors that going out for milk might not be the best idea since the homogenization process.

Yes. I just compared piracy to a quick trip to the store. If it becomes the norm, as it seems to have done, then the response needs to be just as quick and just as merciless.

I think you may have just compared piracy to ... alien abductions!
Yes, that would be my response indeed. What I was thinking was the following scenario:
Of the course of a month, one by one, my neighbors have been arrested for buying milk. The cops then declared "We have no grounds to hold them, and they have been released," but none of them make it home. I still might question the wisdom of going for milk but I would question even more what the cops were up to. And if I were the desperate-to-get-some-milk type, I might go ahead, but with a weapon in my purse.
There's just too much awareness and coverage of the situation for people to disappear without anyone knowing or at least guessing the circumstances.
But, in the link from TaoJones, it sounds like Medvedev made his position pretty clear.

[David_Old_Jersey]

Sometimes in life their are no nice solutions.

IMO got to take a pragmatic approach - and degrade the Pirate's capacity to operate. I doubt very much that every Somali is capable (let alone willing) to venture into the Ocean and then capture a vessel. Might not be rocket science but slightly more to it than simply loading a Pirate Ship full of armed crazies and heading off with fingers crossed. and it ain't a zero cost operation.

Could sink all suspicous vessels, but better to remove the Pirates - especially the more experianced / able. Imprisonment would work. So would hanging or accidents.........or with Somali Govt help (last I heard their was something on paper) conscripting them into the Somali Navy - training base in Siberia A few phone calls home might also act as a deterrent

[Stillraining]

Well I personally don't get it.

They keep saying there is no law to convict them under caught out in the High seas...Well there is no Law to convict ANYONE from blowing them out of the water or invoking 9mm to the temple law and making shark food out of them either...

This has gotten totally stupid and we deserve everything they dish out in the future.

I think the best plan is to load up every single bureaucrat from every pantywaist country and send them on a cruse back and forth through the area...maybe well get lucky and they will get hijacked...I bet the Pirates would want to give them back for free after a month of listing to their BS...The trap is sprung when we tell them to keep them that we don't want them back...You know what they say about pay backs.

[Curmudgeon]

Well, if they were set adrift without food, water or fuel, that might work. But first you'd have to shoot a burst from one of their own AK-47s through the bottom of the boat . Just to be a nice guy, I'd give them a couple of buckets for bailing and a set of oars.