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Old 30-05-2011, 06:48   #61
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Re: Rogue Wave Swamps Cruising Yacht

Hummingway, thanks for bringing an element of reason to this discussion. Clearly the damage to the boat (and the decision made by these experienced sailors to abandon ship) had ZERO to do with the fact that they were equipped with a sat phone. Apart from the fact that it undeniably helped in their rescue, the only thing which made their possession of one even seem relevant were unsupportable statements such as Subray's: "it has been shown that people with sat phones will sleep though there (sic) watches."

Perhaps if Subray and Seahunter want to continue their rant against people who have sat phones, they can start a separate thread. I'm not sure who will be helped by it, but at least we can avoid the thread drift.

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Old 30-05-2011, 07:13   #62
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pirate Re: Rogue Wave Swamps Cruising Yacht

The sailing world will carry on as before... some will carry all the safety gear and others the barest minimum... sinking's and deaths at sea will continue and so will CF and other forums armchair sailors continue to analyse and bicker over the 'after the event' dissection of the incident...
Personally in their situation I'd likely have been hove to and down below with winds 30+ and 12ft+ waves if it was from where I was headed... otherwise... going with the flow...
I likely be solo and so saving my energy for something serious... if with crew... very likely the same... hate beating up a boat when just laying hove to for a few hours is so much less stress
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Old 30-05-2011, 08:21   #63
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Re: Rogue Wave Swamps Cruising Yacht

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Originally Posted by boatman61 View Post
Personally in their situation I'd likely have been hove to and down below with winds 30+ and 12ft+ waves if it was from where I was headed... otherwise... going with the flow...
I likely be solo and so saving my energy for something serious... if with crew... very likely the same... hate beating up a boat when just laying hove to for a few hours is so much less stress
Good advice better than plodding along until something important breaks and ruins your whole day!
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Old 30-05-2011, 08:25   #64
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Re: Rogue Wave Swamps Cruising Yacht

would be interesting to know if the vessel actually sank or is still drifting around?
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Old 30-05-2011, 09:55   #65
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Re: Rogue Wave Swamps Cruising Yacht

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Originally Posted by hummingway View Post
Yeah, a boat that was dead in the water, no mast and no power and a hole in the cabin roof. I suspect you've been in this circumstance yourself, rigged an oar and a hanky to sail a 1000 nm through stormy seas to your destination but these guys made the call to get pulled off.
No need to get snippy, but as a matter of fact yes, and everything depends on the crew's readiness in any given situation and a clear understanding of emergency triage on boat systems. This is dependent on one's knowledge of their boat, where everything is located, how it works and how to fix it. The number one rule is to stay on the boat, but that doesn't mean you have to twiddle your thumbs till it sinks below the surface. Everyone reacts in differently to emergencies, panic sinks the ship.
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Old 30-05-2011, 09:55   #66
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Re: Rogue Wave Swamps Cruising Yacht

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Originally Posted by Southern Star View Post
unsupportable statements such as Subray's: "it has been shown that people with sat phones will sleep though there (sic) watches."
Subray was being sarcastic.
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Old 30-05-2011, 10:33   #67
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Re: Rogue Wave Swamps Cruising Yacht

When I sail off to ports unknown I will carry with me every piece of safety, communication, and navigation technology I can purchase. Including a SAT phone. Not to be used a crutch or substitute for good seamanship but as additional tools that can used if and when needed. And I will not apologize to the true salty dogs out there who believe that if you do have technology onboard you are somehow an inferior sailor to someone who doesn't. Furthermore, I will undergo Systems Operations and Training on all the systems and equipment I install by authorized manufacturers reps AND I will have my wife, kids, sailing partners, etc. do the same.

Ya I know I sound a little ...you fill in the blanks on this butt I'm serious. Technology can be a fantastic tool if used correctly and as an integral part of good seamanship.
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Old 30-05-2011, 10:46   #68
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Re: Rogue Wave Swamps Cruising Yacht

Apologies to Subray - I guess after reading the similar sentiments already expressed by Seahunter, I took it as just another irrational attack on sat phone owners.

Cheers!

Brad
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Old 30-05-2011, 11:31   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Southern Star
Apologies to Subray - I guess after reading the similar sentiments already expressed by Seahunter, I took it as just another irrational attack on sat phone owners.

Cheers!

Brad
Exude my sarcasm it was fitting my mood. No offense taken
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Old 30-05-2011, 16:22   #70
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I think it's a little rich to criticise these guys ( I have to laugh at the post about hand cranking the engine).

They had just lost their mast power and lots of water below. I believe they didn't own the boat why risk your life for a piece of plastic.

Dave
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Old 30-05-2011, 17:32   #71
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Re: Rogue Wave Swamps Cruising Yacht

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When I sail off to ports unknown I will carry with me every piece of safety, communication, and navigation technology I can purchase.
I am not sure if you will run out of stowage space or money first.

Let's think about what might have been useful in this particular situation.

First, a crash/trash pump would allowed them to pump the boat dry and keep it dry even with some significant leaks.

Second, hydraulic cable cutters to cut the rig lose.

Third, some sheets of marine plywood (or better fiberglass) and waterproof cloth with a battery drill and bits and large assortment of sheet metal screws and bolts and epoxy and caulking - to fix the broken hatches and deadlights.

Fourth, a honda generator and a securely stowed jug of gas and a securely stowed smallish back-up battery charger, to provide power until the main circuit breakers and battery bank are dried out. And a bunch of wd40 and dry towels and a heat gun to dry the main breakers and batteries and get the electrical system working again. And spare wire and connectors and crimp tools to by-pass any dead bits you can't bring back to life.

Fifth, Necessary tools and bits to get the engine back working. Probably it will be just fine once you get power back to the starter but . . . You might have to pump water out of the diesel tanks - so small pump, tank fitting and hose. You might have to bleed the engine - so appropriate wrenches. You might have to disassemble and clear/dry and reassemble the starter - appropriate wrenches and cleaner (there is also a very nice aftermarket 'spring starter' that will crank up to a 100hp diesel). It might have moved on its mounts, so appropriate wrenches to do a very rough alignment.

Sixth, spare autopilot(s) and spare gps(s) and spare chart(s) of likely back-up/emergency landfalls.

Seventh, medical kit - it sounds like the crew was in fact fine, just a bit scared and banged up. But you might need splints to deal with broken bones, and bandaging and butterfly's and antiseptic cleaner for head (and other) gashes, and serious pain killer.

Eight, possibility to Jerry rig - some long lengths of 10mm spectra single braid for rigging, hack saw and many spare blades and an electric grinder to cut and shape and smooth the spars, banding tool to splint pieces, drill and padeyes and taps and machine screws and eye bolts for the rigging attachments, sewing supplies (needles and thread and sail palm) and grommet kit and spare spectra sail cloth and webbing, and good scissors and knife and hot knife to cut and reinforce reinforce Jerry sails.

Ninth, either a drogue or a para-anchor to lie to while fixing the boat (or waiting for rescue). Much more stable than lying beam on. And they might have used this before they got into trouble and avoided the whole situation.

Tenth, then I think I get to the sat phone with speed dial to an MD, the RCC where your epirb is registered, your family, and a friendly engine repair mechanic and an electrician.

None of these jobs is particularly difficult. The Jerry rigging probably requires the most seamanship but was probably not necessary because they were within motoring range of shore.

So, that's the list (just off the top of my head) of 'safety' gear that would have been useful in this particular situation. Of course there is much additional gear that could be useful in other quite different 'safety' emergencies.
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Old 30-05-2011, 17:33   #72
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Re: Rogue Wave Swamps Cruising Yacht

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I believe they didn't own the boat why risk your life for a piece of plastic.
This brings up a good question: When is it appropriate to "risk your life for a piece of plastic"? If they had been the owners would that have made any difference?

There is a continuum between "drowning like a gentleman"(*) and pushing the panic button because you've run out of ice cubes. For all I know the guys hit by the wave did the correct thing.

I suppose you have to balance your pride, the unavoidable risk to yourself and others associated with a rescue attempt, and your chances of being able to handle the problem on your own.

Fortunately, most of us will never have to face this situation.

* As Blondie Hasler once said when asked why he had no radio transmitter on board; "It would be more seemly to drown like a gentleman!"
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Old 30-05-2011, 17:38   #73
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Re: Rogue Wave Swamps Cruising Yacht

I'm just happy they are okay. I have also learnt quite a bit I didn't know before from this thread. Thank you.
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Old 30-05-2011, 17:43   #74
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Re: Rogue Wave Swamps Cruising Yacht

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I think it's a little rich to criticise these guys ( I have to laugh at the post about hand cranking the engine).

They had just lost their mast power and lots of water below. I believe they didn't own the boat why risk your life for a piece of plastic.

Dave

Laugh all you like matey .... I can hand crank my diesel & there are lots ( Beta ... Westerbeke ... Volvo ... Yanmar to name but a few ) which are supplied with a cranking handle for ... yep you guessed ... HAND CRANKING ...

AND ... regarding "risking their lives" .... the boat wasn't sinking just somewhat awash below ...
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Old 30-05-2011, 17:47   #75
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Re: Rogue Wave Swamps Cruising Yacht

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pushing the panic button because you've run out of ice cubes.
I was once told not to use the EPIRB if you lose someone overboard. It should only be used if the vessel is in danger of sinking.

Thoughts?


(By the way, if you are on my boat and go for a swim I'll use the EPIRB if I can't get you back pronto.)
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