Rio Dulce Robbery/Murder

[ssullivan]

Originally Posted by Chuck Baier

I suppose it comes down to something as simple as this. If your fears will keep you from traveling where ever crime occurs than unfortunately you will not only probably never leave the dock but may even never spend a night on the boat.

Which isn't such a bad thing, as maybe there will be more anchorages for the rest of us!

(assuming I will ever be able to pay for international cruising)

[Keegan]

Originally Posted by Chuck Baier

I suppose it comes down to something as simple as this. If your fears will keep you from traveling where ever crime occurs than unfortunately you will not only probably never leave the dock but may even never spend a night on the boat.

Ok, crime occurs everywhere. I think everyone would agree with that. But lets not forget that statisics show that Guatamala has a higher crime rate than many other places in the world. If you are comfortable cruising in countries with the highest crime rates in the world then Guatamala is a great place to start. One can cruise for years and years in great cruising areas and choose to avoid the highest crime areas of the world, or one can choose to visit every stop along the way and take their chances. Freedom is great isnt it. To each his own. :cubalibre

[AnchorageGuy]

Originally Posted by Keegan

Ok, crime occurs everywhere. I think everyone would agree with that. But lets not forget that statisics show that Guatamala has a higher crime rate than many other places in the world. If you are comfortable cruising in countries with the highest crime rates in the world then Guatamala is a great place to start. One can cruise for years and years in great cruising areas and choose to avoid the highest crime areas of the world, or one can choose to visit every stop along the way and take their chances. Freedom is great isnt it. To each his own. :cubalibre

Not sure where you get your statistics but numbers can be made to show anything you want. No one beats the US for crime so does that mean you no longer plan to cruise in the US?. Sean is right, if you all stay home the rest of us will have plenty of anchorage spots in all of those dangerous countries that we have been cruising in for years and that are really getting crowded.

[Keegan]

Originally Posted by Chuck Baier

. No one beats the US for crime so does that mean you no longer plan to cruise in the US?. Sean is right, if you all stay home the rest of us will have plenty of anchorage spots in all of those dangerous countries that we have been cruising in for years and that are really getting crowded.

I will cruise the US, it is my home. I will also cruise the US in lower crime areas because we all know that the US is diverse and all areas of the US are not the same.

Seems like everyone will be a winner, those that avoid the RIO will feel safer and those that dont will be happier because they have it all to themselves. Funny how that works out.

[Therapy]

Any reports of cruisers being hacked up by machetes in the US lately.

[AnchorageGuy]

Originally Posted by Therapy

Any reports of cruisers being hacked up by machetes in the US lately.

No they usually wait until we get off their boats and of course use guns since they are easier to hide and more effective then machetes. But this is not the point of the thread. It was originally to make others aware of the situation and to follow up with the resolution. I think at this point if further discussion is needed between where is safe and where is not and who kills whom by what method maybe we need to start another discussion.

[ssullivan]

Originally Posted by Therapy

Any reports of cruisers being hacked up by machetes in the US lately.

Not machetes, per se... but in the past year or so:

*Couple beaten and drowned off their sailboat that was for sale in CA.
*Fishing charter crew shot/killed off FL
*B&B Operator murdered in Maine (not really boating, but was a deciding factor for us not allowing customers aboard anymore)

The list goes on and on... these are just a few from memory.

[Therapy]

Originally Posted by ssullivan

Not machetes, per se... but in the past year or so:

*Couple beaten and drowned off their sailboat that was for sale in CA.
*Fishing charter crew shot/killed off FL
*B&B Operator murdered in Maine (not really boating, but was a deciding factor for us not allowing customers aboard anymore)

The list goes on and on... these are just a few from memory.

I think you actually have most all of them.

And after lots of other info the CA one would have been hard to avoid.
The FL one, well, they knew the charachters were shady but the $$$ blinded them.
B&B - don't know about.

Back on topic - how many boats attacked in the week?

[anotherT34C]

I think it would help for us all to be better risk assessors. If the risk (statistically) of being robbed in anchorage A is say 3X the risk of being robbed in anchorage B, that may seem like a big increase. However, if what that really means is that the risk goes from one chance in ten thousand to three chances in ten thousand, I probably wouldn't worry too much.

It's like the mothers who go and pick up their kids at school and drive them home because they fear abduction by a stranger. Statistically, a child is many thousands of times more likely to die in a car accident than is likely to be abducted by a stranger. Human beings are funny creatures!

[FrankZ]

Originally Posted by anotherT34C

It's like the mothers who go and pick up their kids at school and drive them home because they fear abduction by a stranger. Statistically, a child is many thousands of times more likely to die in a car accident than is likely to be abducted by a stranger. Human beings are funny creatures!

You watched the Penn and Teller episode on "Stranger Danger" didn't you?

[schoonerdog]

Guatemala is a country where 1500 women were murdered since 2003, only 15 resulted in prison sentences. Guatemala you basically can have your lawyer arrange for the person whose bringing charges to disappear (offered by your lawyer), and for a very cheap rate. If you are not poor, you live in a fortress, with each family hiring their own security. HOWEVER, crimes in marinas from what I've heard are almost non existant, because they have their own private security forces. So the rule typically in Guatemala has been stay in a marina and you can enjoy. Go to Antigua and enjoy the incredibly good language schools. But if your travelling be very careful where you go and have things available, such as wallets ready to hand over with fake credit cards and a little bit of money. If you have kids, get them the shoes with the GPS locator in the heel or the emergency locator in the watches. Don't look like your wealthy. Blend in as much as possible. And if you are anchoring there, keep any hatch that could be used to gain entry closed. And yes, Annapolis has had 6 murders this year in a town of 38,000, so it too can be incredibly risky in certain areas. As Gordon suggested though, make it a point to find out everything about where specifically you are going to make sure you are safe.

[anotherT34C]

Originally Posted by FrankZ

You watched the Penn and Teller episode on "Stranger Danger" didn't you?

No, but I'd bet we both got it from the same guy (can't remember name) on who was on NPR. It's all pretty interesting. Did you know that (many) more people were 'killed' by 9/11 as a result of switching from air travel to driving? It all has to do with how the primate brain evaluates risk by known example, and television news give us lots of 'known examples' of things that are never going to happen to us, statistically.

[Ex-Calif]

A lot of the crime we worry about is personal, economically driven and sometimes violent.

Suspend all the white collar crimes in the US and most of the drug related offenses, all the family murders etc. etc. and you are now talking about most of the crime cruisers are worried about.

Where you have a persistent and significant disparity on economic conditions you will have high economic crime rates. The have nots will try to steal from the haves. This is apparent all over Asia. However it is most prevalent in urban areas.

Also a factor is the "law and order" situation - Where the government is perceived (or is actually) corrupt and not working on crime, people learn that there is no redress as a victim and little risk as a perpetrator.

Once you get out to the provinces, most of Asia is abundant in food and natural beauty and the "have nots" in many ways are the haves.

There are many stories of cruisers hooking up with the local in a seaside community and bcoming part of their landscape for a while.

This should not lull anyone into a sense of false secuurity. Some areas have economically driven crime coupled with violence and the spolight of the media makes these areas well known. I would choose to avoid rather than roll the dice.

There are thousands and thousands of safe and beautiful places in the world. That's where I'm going.

[redfred50]

Originally Posted by Jolly Roger

I’m considering a world cruise and security does worry me.
I like the idea of initially lighting up the boat and making as much noise as possible while you are still below decks. I wonder though, if that would have been enough to scare off these murders, and whether there is anything else which could be rigged, without having to confront them personally. Perhaps a rattle of machine gun fire over your tannoy?
Has anyone actually used pepper spray in defense, under what circumstances, and was it successful?
I’m glad to hear the other culprits were found and dealt with summarily, but I hope we might get more information about the exact circumstances of the attack on Daniel and Nancy, so we can at least learn something from it.

Do you not think that the use of a pump action riot gun , used at the time of the crime would have saved a whole lot of agro???
I am personally sick to my back teeth of the current ducking and diving when it comes to any action .I feel that if anyone perpetrates a crime they deserve what they get .I do appreciate that it is a way out view thesedays but being 71 I do not belong to thesedays.
With no compunction at all I would have sorted out the problem there and then , and thought I had done the world a favour

[GordMay]

Tuesday, July 28, 2009 -- Puerto Barrios. Two brothers were sentenced yesterday to 60 years in prison for the death of Daniel Perry Dryden of the United States and attempted murder of his wife, Nancy on their boat, s/v Sunday's Child, according to Prensa Libre writer Sandra Osorio.
The sentence was handed down by Court of Criminal Judgments Judge Jose Rodriguez Pazos, who sentenced them to 30 years for murder, 20 for attempted murder and aggravated robbery by 10. During the trial, the prosecution evidence showed the ice pick and a pair of binoculars found in a search that took place in the house of the two brothers. Two other persons believed to have been involved in the attack were reported killed after the incident.
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