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Old 22-02-2011, 11:15   #46
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Very sad indeed. Hopefully all the revolutions we are seeing in Africa spread and good governments are established in these poor countries. The best way to eradicate piracy and thievery is to eradicate it's need. Improving the economies of the region, bringing the populations out if 1/3+ unemployment rates and giving these people a sense of personal pride and hope is the only way to finally get it under control. Unfortunately it will take time. Not just for reforms to occur but for social change to take root as well.

In the meantime I pray fit the families of the fallen.

And I will monitor the region while I plan my circumnavigation and will route accordingly. Maybe do the looping method suggested here. :-/

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Old 22-02-2011, 11:21   #47
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Re: 'Quest' Crew Killed

Thanks for those details, nv5l. So, in order to pursue 'friendship evangelism' - virtually an oxymoron to many Somalians, they left the relative safety of a flotilla of other yachts and deliberately put themselves in harms way?

Those on this site who believe that sailors who are rescued by the Coast Guard should be forced to pay for that service, please speak up: perhaps the estate of these people should be required to pay for the cost of the military intervention that wouldn't have been needed but for their naivety/stupidity.

Only kidding. I for one believe that although it costs tax dollars, there are some services that governments should provide - and yes, sometimes that even includes trying to protect us/rescue us from things that would not have happened but for our own stupidity.

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Old 22-02-2011, 11:36   #48
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Re: 'Quest' Crew Killed

I'm sorry, the whole "feed the hungry and the pirates will stop" is a bunch of crap! Wasting MY tax dollars (God knows what the daily bill on an aircraft carrier battle group is) on anything other than sending the pirates off to their maker is MORE crap!

Honestly, WHY does someone feel the need to place themselves in harms way by PURPOSELY traveling those waters in an unarmed yacht? THEN expecting someone else to come to their rescue, THEN blaming the rescuers when SHTF? Its sorta like the boneheads who sued Nepal for not helping them when they were climbing Everest and screwed up.

Ya wanna end piracy? STOP TRAVELING IN THEIR WATERS!
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Old 22-02-2011, 11:51   #49
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Re: 'Quest' Crew Killed

Kinda hard to stop sailing there since its the largest shipping route in the world! I hope The US takes a harder and more proactive stance on piracy. I am a merchant marine hold a 200ton Masters and am a cruiser and I should be able to work and sail any waters on earth either for work or pleasure. Maybe someone should tell the bin ladens there.
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Old 22-02-2011, 12:10   #50
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Re: 'Quest' Crew Killed

Condolences to family and friends of the victims. Still would like to point out these are the first American citizens killed by Somalis. We all know these were not the first Somalis killed by Americans. Obviously it is now more risky to sail these waters as the stakes have been raised. Does not really matter who raised the ante first as long as everyone realizes sailing here means bet your life.
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Old 22-02-2011, 12:15   #51
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Re: 'Quest' Crew Killed

Hi Brad:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Southern Star View Post
Thanks for those details, nv5l. So, in order to pursue 'friendship evangelism' - virtually an oxymoron to many Somalians, they left the relative safety of a flotilla of other yachts and deliberately put themselves in harms way?
No idea. What do you think?

I was just responding to the post that said they weren't evangelizing. It's pretty clear from their log that they weren't interested in giving any bibles to Somalies.

take care...
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Old 22-02-2011, 12:27   #52
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Re: 'Quest' Crew Killed

Quote:
Originally Posted by blgklr View Post
Condolences to family and friends of the victims. Still would like to point out these are the first American citizens killed by Somalis. We all know these were not the first Somalis killed by Americans ...
Blackhawk Down:

The First Battle of Mogadishu (also referred to as Black Hawk Down in popular culture) or for Somalis the Day of the Rangers (Somali: Maalintii Rangers) was part of Operation Gothic Serpent, and was fought on October 3 and 4, 1993, in Mogadishu, Somalia, between forces of the United States (Task Force Ranger) supported by UNOSOM II and Somali militia fighters loyal to president to be Mohamed Farrah Aidid who had support from armed civilian fighters.

The exact number of Somali casualties is unknown, but estimates range from several hundred to over a thousand militiamen and other attackers dead, with injuries to another 3,0004,000. The International Committee of the Red Cross estimated 200 Somali civilians killed and several hundred wounded in the fighting. The book Black Hawk Down: A Story of Modern War estimates more than 700 Somali militiamen dead and more than 1,000 wounded.

The Pentagon initially reported five American soldiers were killed; but the toll was actually 18 American soldiers dead and 73 wounded; whilst one Malaysian soldier died, and seven Malaysians and two Pakistanis were wounded.
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Old 22-02-2011, 12:45   #53
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Re: 'Quest' Crew Killed

Nv5i I was genuinely thanking you for those details (which did respond to the post you referred to). Unless I am mistaken, there was earlier information that they had chosen to break away from a flottilla of yachts, taking the route that led to their demise. Since their stated mission was 'friendship evangelism', I also assumed that they were still pursuing that mission (and even though it was not their intention to give bibles to Somalis, that decision certainly put them in the area of the Somali pirates).

Was some other reason given for their decision to separate from the other boats and make a more dangerous passage?

Brad
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Old 22-02-2011, 13:15   #54
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Re: 'Quest' Crew Killed

No worries, but really, I have no idea. I could speculate, but that's all it would be. Some have indicated medical issue, others have said that the BWR doesn't normally sail in a group, just meets up a different locations, etc. But I really don't know.

However, if you look at the map on winlink, you'll find another boat that successfully transited the area about the same time -- though he didn't report his position until he reached his destination.

Quest switched to Spot back in 2009, so you won't find them there, but you can look them up on Shiptrak if you're interested in their previous reports -- they seem to keep everything.

I did look at their last Spot report on Sunday, but it's been deleted now. I think it was for the 14th, and well south of Oman, but I didn't pay too much attention, so I can't tell you exactly. Also, I read somewhere that he'd planned to go silent when he passed near Somalia.

However, I do wonder if he was running any other gear that might have given his position away, radar, AIS, etc. Just don't know. Maybe it was just fate, and unpreventable.
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Old 22-02-2011, 13:22   #55
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Re: 'Quest' Crew Killed

Call me paranoid, but do you think the official story adds up? the pirates just shoot the hostages? their only protection then attack a warship with an rpg? or maybe more like the navy were doing a sneak attack got caught out and they killed the hostages and fired the rpg in a last ditch effort? Don't get me wrong i have no complaints about the navy doing a sneak attack, valiant effort, but it does stink of a cover up... My condolence to friends and family of the quest. please ignore the negative comments posted by others.
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Old 22-02-2011, 13:25   #56
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Re: 'Quest' Crew Killed

All very sad, especially as uneccessary

FWIW, folk should bear in mind that organised criminal activity (i.e. when the purpose is financial gain, whether in cash or kind - or power.........rather than for political or religous purposes) can be a very disorganised affair. and the decisions made are no more sensible or rational (nor right ) than within any other business - and usually worse as some of them have the principal skill of...........not being very bright (a very useful skill nonetheless).

Indeed, it could be argued that it's surprising that it can work at all ........It's not like their actually are clear job titles and responsibilities or a formal chain of command to obey........especially in times of stress even what there is can fall apart easily. Like when a Navy warship is coming over the horizon.

The debate here has been heated over the last few days (a few threads locked) and that with Moderators who can hold some line in the sand. The same "debates" would have been ongoing onboard amongst the Pirates, except they have guns and alliances (onboard and ashore) to juggle - and just as many opinions from people who are "right" to deal with. and a lot less knowledge of WTF is actually going on / what the US Navy would do than even CF.

I mention the above just in passing - as something to bear in mind for those thinking of how the dealing with Pirates would likely be...........Chaotic.

Anyway, FWIW sounds like the Navy did the best they could, and it just wasn't good enough (no criticism meant by that - sometimes in life that is just how it is). IMO a period of contact / negotiation (explaining & convincing them of the facts of life) was a good idea.......and given the circumstances onboard amongst the Pirates that would have taken a lot longer than dealing with say a simple hostage situation in the West.

Shooting can start anytime - but you don't have to start with the shooting. Indeed, truly having power means not having to shoot people .
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Old 22-02-2011, 13:31   #57
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Re: 'Quest' Crew Killed

Well said, but I think we're all in shock and trying to make sense out of it.
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Old 22-02-2011, 13:41   #58
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Re: 'Quest' Crew Killed

My experience is that news stories only vaguley carry the truth of the matter. Especially when there is some technical detail that the average reporter can not understand.

Therefore I expect that whatever we hear, and especially whatever we hear over the next few days, will be only a rough approximation of the truth.

I would suggest that we all take a bit of a deep breath and wait for more nuanced answers to come out before speculating too deeply.

In the meantime my condolances to the family and friends of the deceased.

And, if I might add, my condolances to all those dreamers and their cherished conceptions of a joyful world cruise.

Tis truly a loss to us all.

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Old 22-02-2011, 13:53   #59
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Re: 'Quest' Crew Killed

Sad news indeed. I don't think giving captured pirates 30 years of comfort, TV, and 3 square meals a day is any deterrent to those still out there. This is the penalty one of them recently received.
Haven't sailed that part of the world, yet. With the hazards known, would it have been possible to avoid the area entirely instead of sailing right in to refuel?

Knowing what I do about the criminal mind, I suspect the pirates lurk in a bottle neck of some sort, where vessels are forced to sail thru a specific area.

I'm probably sailing in that direction next year. What is the safest route?
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Old 22-02-2011, 13:55   #60
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Re: 'Quest' Crew Killed

Well paying ransoms just increases the problem full stop, arms them better, equips them better and cause even more piracy, domino effect.
Negotiating en route is unlikely to get them to give up their prize, only gain time and slow them down, they only way they;d willingly give up is a nice case of cash.

The navy has only 2 options let them go or take action, whether impeding progress blocking the vessel from reaching its destination or armed action.

As others have said reducing their ability to travel far reduces their effectiveness the cant get far from the coast in small boats, money= resources more money more resources more effectiveness even more piracy at further ranges.

So what alternative dispute resolutions do you see? erm ask nicely? and try dealing reasonably with unreasonable people. do tell me what the reasonable people of planet earth are thinking? No offence but this is not a dispute, it is not two people arguing over a land boundry or who is at fault over a fender bender. I can ony see two options let them take them or try and stop them, please tell me of other options, i doubt any trade sanctions are going to work.
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