Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 22-11-2008, 08:34   #1
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: St Charles MO
Boat: Easterly 36 Aft Cabin
Posts: 180
Pirates/Piracy

The real information on piracy world wide. There were only 2 reports of piracy on yachts in the carib so far in 2008. Guess where?

Live Piracy Map
__________________

__________________
7.25 years until the Carib
easterly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-11-2008, 09:28   #2
Registered User

Join Date: May 2003
Location: East Coast & Other Forums!
Posts: 913
That is just wrong. It is inapplicable to cruising sailors. Noonsite reports 5 incidents of CRUISING sailboat boardings/attacks this year in Venezuela alone. I know of another well reorted incident in Guatamala. There is NO single reliable source for piracy attacks against cruising boats. Best info for cruising boats is on the Safety and Security net for the Caribe and Noonsite news.
__________________

__________________
Cam - I am no longer a member here. Look for me on other forums...same name.

camaraderie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-11-2008, 12:51   #3
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: St Charles MO
Boat: Easterly 36 Aft Cabin
Posts: 180
Quote:
Originally Posted by camaraderie View Post
That is just wrong. It is inapplicable to cruising sailors. Noonsite reports 5 incidents of CRUISING sailboat boardings/attacks this year in Venezuela alone. I know of another well reorted incident in Guatamala. There is NO single reliable source for piracy attacks against cruising boats. Best info for cruising boats is on the Safety and Security net for the Caribe and Noonsite news.
It's the best site I've seen so far. It does list cruising yachts, with lat/long so others can avoid those areas, that have been boarded. Noonsite has some "stories" on it. "I was boarded/broken into 4 months ago, but I didn't report it to anyone". If you are boarded and don't report it, that would be irresponsible. The next boater that comes along and gets boarded might not be as lucky. Some of the incidents in Guatamala are on the river/lake and fresh water incidents. "Pirates" swam out to the boats in the river. Do you want to consider all the breaking and entering and thefts that occur on the great lakes and rivers as piracy? There was a guy earlier this year that stole a boat on the Mississippi river, the cops chased him, he jumped overboard and tried to swim for it. He left his 5 year old son in the stolen boat. They didn't charge him with piracy.
__________________
7.25 years until the Carib
easterly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-11-2008, 15:32   #4
Marine Service Provider
 
AnchorageGuy's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Wherever the boat is!
Boat: Marine Trader 34DC
Posts: 4,618
Quote:
Originally Posted by easterly View Post
It's the best site I've seen so far. It does list cruising yachts, with lat/long so others can avoid those areas, that have been boarded. Noonsite has some "stories" on it. "I was boarded/broken into 4 months ago, but I didn't report it to anyone". If you are boarded and don't report it, that would be irresponsible. The next boater that comes along and gets boarded might not be as lucky. Some of the incidents in Guatamala are on the river/lake and fresh water incidents. "Pirates" swam out to the boats in the river. Do you want to consider all the breaking and entering and thefts that occur on the great lakes and rivers as piracy? There was a guy earlier this year that stole a boat on the Mississippi river, the cops chased him, he jumped overboard and tried to swim for it. He left his 5 year old son in the stolen boat. They didn't charge him with piracy.

Me thinks you know not what you speak. The events Camaraderie mentions are all well documented and commented on several sites by the very people that were involved including the boardings and killing in the Rio Dulce and the violence in Venezuela.
__________________
Chesapeake Bay, ICW Hampton Roads To Key West, The Gulf Coast, The Bahamas

The Trawler Beach House
Voyages Of Sea Trek
AnchorageGuy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-11-2008, 03:47   #5
Moderator Emeritus
 
GordMay's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Thunder Bay, Ontario - 48-29N x 89-20W
Boat: (Cruiser Living On Dirt)
Posts: 31,595
Images: 240
There are several websites devoted to Piracy against private yachts (cruisers), including:

Noonsite - Piracy
Noonsite: Piracy

Caribbean Safety & Security Net (CSSN)

Welcome to the Caribbean Safety and Security Net

Yacht Piracy (Klaus Hympendahl)
Yacht Piracy - Information Centre for Bluewater Sailors

The International Sailing Federation (ISAF) - Piracy Reports

ISAF : Piracy Reports

The PRC Map to which Easterly linked is hosted by The International Maritime Bureau (IMB) Piracy Reporting Centre (PRC), which operates under the auspices of the International Chamber of Commerce (ICC).

The main aim of the PRC is to raise awareness within the shipping industry, which includes the shipmaster, ship-owner, insurance companies, traders, etc, of the areas of high risk associated with piratical attacks or specific ports and anchorages associated with armed robberies on board ships. This site is not directed towards piracy against private yachts.

IMB Piracy Reporting Centre
__________________
Gord May
"If you didn't have the time or money to do it right in the first place, when will you get the time/$ to fix it?"



GordMay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-11-2008, 08:03   #6
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: St Charles MO
Boat: Easterly 36 Aft Cabin
Posts: 180
Quote:
Originally Posted by GordMay View Post
There are several websites devoted to Piracy against private yachts (cruisers), including:

Noonsite - Piracy
Noonsite: Piracy

Caribbean Safety & Security Net (CSSN)
Welcome to the Caribbean Safety and Security Net

Yacht Piracy (Klaus Hympendahl)
Yacht Piracy - Information Centre for Bluewater Sailors

The International Sailing Federation (ISAF) - Piracy Reports
ISAF : Piracy Reports

The PRC Map to which Easterly linked is hosted by The International Maritime Bureau (IMB) Piracy Reporting Centre (PRC), which operates under the auspices of the International Chamber of Commerce (ICC).

The main aim of the PRC is to raise awareness within the shipping industry, which includes the shipmaster, ship-owner, insurance companies, traders, etc, of the areas of high risk associated with piratical attacks or specific ports and anchorages associated with armed robberies on board ships. This site is not directed towards piracy against private yachts.

IMB Piracy Reporting Centre
Gord, you are right it is not directed towards private yachts but does list many private yacht boardings.

The Yacht piracy website says European waters are free from pirates and does not list the boarding of a private yacht in the med on Aug 24 2008. The PRC map does.

CSSN does not show the boardings of private yachts off Venezuela on Jan 15 2008 and Jul 5 2008. PRC does.

So I would say check all available sources and make an informed decision.

I will still say the incidents in Rio are not classified as piracy and that things are going to get much worse in Venezuela as their economy tanks due to dropping oil prices and Hugo can't pay his bills.

Stay away from Venezuela.
__________________
7.25 years until the Carib
easterly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-11-2008, 08:09   #7
Marine Service Provider
 
AnchorageGuy's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Wherever the boat is!
Boat: Marine Trader 34DC
Posts: 4,618
Why would the boardings in the Rio Dulce not classify but the same incidents in Venezuela do? I don't understand how a illegal boarding, robbery and murder would not classify as piracy.
__________________
Chesapeake Bay, ICW Hampton Roads To Key West, The Gulf Coast, The Bahamas

The Trawler Beach House
Voyages Of Sea Trek
AnchorageGuy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-11-2008, 08:37   #8
Registered User

Join Date: May 2003
Location: East Coast & Other Forums!
Posts: 913
Claiming that the site is the REAL source for piracy information is significantly different than saying..."here's an additional source" .
Your "Real" source has TWO piracy examples in the entire Caribe basin for the year. Here's what the CCSC has for JUST the Venezuelan Islands this year:
COCHE
1-Oct-08
ROBBERY
COMPUTER, DIVE GEAR, CASH, SSB
UNK
BOARDED BY 5 MEN 1 GUN AT DUSK, TOOK CASH, CREDIT CARDS, SSB RADIO, COMPUTERS, DIVE GEAR; ANCHORED NEAR HOTEL WITH 1 OTHER BOAT

LOS TESTIGOS
26-Jan-08
ASSAULT & ROBBERY
UNKNOWN
NOT LOCKED
BOARDED BY 5 MEN WITH GUNS; CAPTAIN SHOT IN STOMACH; WIFE SCREAMED & ATTRACTED ATTENTION; FISHERMAN APPLIED TOURNIQUET & RUSHED CAPTAIN TO PORLAMAR HOSPITAL

MARGARITA - PAMPATAR
5-Aug-08
ASSAULT & ROBBERY
LOTS
UNK
GANG OF YOUNG MEN PISTOL WHIPPED & TIED UP SINGLE HANDER; BURNED HIM WITH CIGARETTES; LOOTED BOAT; SKIPPER HOSPITALIZED & RELEASED SEVERAL DAYS LATER

MARGARITA - PAMPATAR
28-Jun-08
ASSAULT & ROBBERY
LOTS
NOT LOCKED
BOARDED BY 5 YOUNG MEN ON SURFBOARDS, PISTOL WHIPPED CAPTAIN W/ 9mm REVOLVER, TIED HIM W/ DUCT TAPE, RANSACKED BOAT, LOADED TOOLS, CASH & OTHER STUFF IN HIS DINGHY & LEFT FOR SHORE. GOT UNTAPED, SHOT OFF 2 FLARES, 2 LOCAL MEN CAME OUT & THEN CALLED POLICE. PORLAMAR PORT CAPTAIN & IMMIGRATION DRIVING HIM TO PAMPATAR POLICE

MARGARITA - PORLAMAR
8-Jul-08
ASSAULT & ROBBERY
CASH
NOT LOCKED
SWIMMER WITH KNIFE ABOUT 1100, TIED UP YOUNG WOMAN W/ DUCT TAPE & TOWEL, RANSACKED BOAT

MARGARITA - PORLAMAR
12-Jan-08
ROBBERY
CASH
NOT LOCKED
THREE MEN ARMED WITH SHOTGUN AND TWO PISTOLS

MARGARITA - ROBEDAL
15-Jan-08
ASSAULT & ROBBERY
LOTS
NOT LOCKED
BOARDED BY 5 ARMED MEN; CAPTAIN SHOT THEN HOSPITALIZED; MAY BE PARALYZED

Contrary to your assertion the CSSN Does show the attempts you cite...and lots more.
__________________
Cam - I am no longer a member here. Look for me on other forums...same name.

camaraderie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-11-2008, 08:40   #9
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: St Charles MO
Boat: Easterly 36 Aft Cabin
Posts: 180
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuck Baier View Post
Why would the boardings in the Rio Dulce not classify but the same incidents in Venezuela do? I don't understand how a illegal boarding, robbery and murder would not classify as piracy.

Maritime piracy, according to the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS) of 1982, consists of any criminal acts of violence, detention, or depredation committed for private ends by the crew or the passengers of a private ship or aircraft that is directed on the high seas against another ship, aircraft, or against persons or property on board a ship or aircraft. Piracy can also be committed against a ship, aircraft, persons, or property in a place outside the jurisdiction of any state.

If you want to call all boarding and thefts piracy, we have a huge problem in the US and the piracy rate is higher than Somalia.

Tampa Bay Fl 183 boats boarded and stolen so far this year. Mostly for use in smuggling operations.
Florida 1200 boat thefts this year. This is just stolen boats not ones that are broken into and have items taken.
Mobile Bay Al over one dozen boats stolen this year.
Georgia 300 boats stolen this year.

The only difference is our pirates wait until the crews of the boats are gone, most of the time.
__________________
7.25 years until the Carib
easterly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-11-2008, 09:06   #10
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: St Charles MO
Boat: Easterly 36 Aft Cabin
Posts: 180
I don't know how many sailboats are in the US but you can expect 2.5 out of every 10,000 to be stolen every year. Sailboats do have the lowest theft rates of any boats. The FBI does not release the stats on boat thefts and boat breakins/gear thefts.

McIntosh's Beneteau 57--the only one of its kind in the United States--disappeared on a moonlit night last January 7, from the Charleston City Marina and was found 500 miles away in the Bahamas three weeks later on January 28. Acting on a tip, the combined forces of the FBI, drug enforcement agents and the Bahamian police recovered the vessel. The thieves should have known better; when you steal a yacht, don't steal an easily identifiable limited edition.
What are the chances of an average Joe's stolen boat being recovered? Las Vegas odds makers would take 10 to 1 odds against it according to Karlton Kilby, BoatU.S. Marine Insurance executive and president of the International Association of Marine Investigators (IAMI).
Notwithstanding the fortunate fate of McIntosh's Beneteau, sailboats have the lowest boat theft rate in the U.S. Based on a 10-year study of BoatU.S. Marine Insurance claim files, sailboats have a theft rate of 2.5 in 10,000.
__________________
7.25 years until the Carib
easterly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-11-2008, 09:08   #11
Moderator Emeritus
 
Ex-Calif's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: May 2007
Location: Singapore
Boat: Maxi 77 - Relax Lah!
Posts: 11,514
Images: 4
Quote:
Originally Posted by easterly View Post
I don't know how many sailboats are in the US but you can expect 2.5 out of every 10,000 to be stolen every year.
It's a real bummer to come to the dock and find half your boat gone. I hate it when that happens...
__________________
Relax Lah! is For Sale <--- Click
Click--> Custom CF Google Search or CF Rules
You're gonna need a bigger boat... - Martin Brody
Ex-Calif is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-11-2008, 09:11   #12
Registered User

Join Date: May 2003
Location: East Coast & Other Forums!
Posts: 913
So the boats have to be moving and not at anchor for piracy to take place? Then why did your site report the yachts in VZ as piracy...they were boardings at anchor?

I am classing as piracy any ARMED boardings where boat were at anchor or underway and people were aboard and threatened or injured. I think that is what cruisers are interested in...not some technical definition according to maritime law or the statistics on boat theft or dingy theft....though those are ALSO reported on the CSSN.
__________________
Cam - I am no longer a member here. Look for me on other forums...same name.

camaraderie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-11-2008, 09:16   #13
Registered User
 
swagman's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Winter land based UK New Forest. Summer months away. Making the transition from sail to power this year - scary stuff.
Boat: Super Van Craft 1320 Power Yacht
Posts: 2,175
Images: 10
Send a message via Skype™ to swagman
Yes I'm equally not sure where this threads going but the opening message which infers the site is the best is obviously misguided. Thank goodness we do have a number of sites we can all refer to, but it would be even better if one became the complete source of information.
Maybe one day, eh.
JOHN
__________________
Don't take life too seriously. No ones going to make it out alive......Go see our blog at http://www.sailblogs.com/member/yachtswagman/
swagman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-11-2008, 10:15   #14
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: St Charles MO
Boat: Easterly 36 Aft Cabin
Posts: 180
Quote:
Originally Posted by swagman View Post
Yes I'm equally not sure where this threads going but the opening message which infers the site is the best is obviously misguided. Thank goodness we do have a number of sites we can all refer to, but it would be even better if one became the complete source of information.
Maybe one day, eh.
JOHN
That would be best if we could come up with just one site. I thought the site I found was the best out of the ones available. The dates on some of the other sites are transposed 05 07 2008 is July 7th 2008 not May 5th 2008. Theft is theft, robbery is robbery and piracy is piracy.

Can we get a sticky that every one can list the location of boardings, robberies, and theft?

Just for information the US has 2 people on death row for piracy. One in Mississippi and one in Georgia, both for aircraft piracy not boats.
Another interesting note there have been "pirate" attacks on casino boats in the US where armed gunmen have boarded the boats and robbed them at gun point with passengers onboard.

Metro Briefing | New York: Freeport: Casino Boat Robbers Still At Large
  • Published: October 3, 2005


The Nassau County police were looking for five men yesterday who robbed the Majestic Casino cruise boat as it was about to depart from Freeport on Saturday evening. The police said five masked men, at least three of whom were armed, boarded the boat at 7:35 p.m. and forced their way into the money room. The police said the men took an undetermined amount of cash and fled west in a vehicle on Manhattan Avenue. About 350 passengers were aboard at the time of the robbery. No injuries were reported, the police said.
__________________
7.25 years until the Carib
easterly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-11-2008, 10:30   #15
Obsfucator, Second Class
 
dacust's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Southeast USA.
Boat: 1982 Sea Ray SRV360
Posts: 1,743
Quote:
Originally Posted by camaraderie View Post
I am classing as piracy any ARMED boardings where boat were at anchor or underway and people were aboard and threatened or injured. I think that is what cruisers are interested in...not some technical definition according to maritime law or the statistics on boat theft or dingy theft....though those are ALSO reported on the CSSN.
Instead of redefining "Piracy", why don't we just say we'd like a site that shows a combination of piracy, violent crimes and thefts committed against cruisers.

Also, you may define piracy like you want, but it may help to understand the real definition of piracy when you are looking at sites showing statictics.

And, yes, it looks like not all sites use the real definition. But that doesn't mean the official definition of piracy is wrong. Just that the site itself is redefining piracy to their own standard.
__________________

__________________
dacust is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
piracy

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Just Out Looking for Pirates TaoJones The Library 41 18-02-2010 06:01
There are pirates, and there are pirates... Amgine Cruising News & Events 24 21-01-2009 19:47
Piracy easterly Cruising News & Events 13 29-01-2008 09:29
Pirates- Look out! delmarrey Health, Safety & Related Gear 0 27-11-2005 14:52
No Pirates Here !!! GordMay Health, Safety & Related Gear 1 22-08-2005 06:22



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 06:37.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.