Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 01-03-2013, 18:20   #196
Registered User
 
Jimbo485's Avatar

Join Date: May 2010
Location: some ocean down under
Boat: Kelsall Suncat 40
Posts: 1,247
Quote:
Originally Posted by cat man do

Right, so they ARE breaking the law despite what you said earlier.

And of those that are, the Japanese buy many of their votes.
http://www.abc.net.au/lateline/conte...0/s2930189.htm

For scientific NOT food purposes.
What law are they breaking? Please provide a link to the actual law that forbids eating whale meat, cat man do.

I realise it is all legal twisting and turning. The primary "official" reason to hunt legally is science. But where does it say how the whales must be disposed of, following dissection and scientific research? Incinerated, buried, eaten, supermarket shelves? I can't find the detail. Can you, CMD?
__________________

__________________

Jimbo485 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2013, 18:23   #197
Registered User
 
Celestialsailor's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: In Mexico, working on the boat
Boat: Hallberg Rassy 35. and 14ft.Whitehall pulling skiff.
Posts: 8,013
Images: 5
Re: Pirates operating in Southern Ocean........

Quote:
Originally Posted by micah719 View Post
Start a rumour that eating whalemeat shrinks your Willy....the Flee Willy Syndrome.
From what I hear I doubt they could get any smaller...
__________________

__________________
"Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well-preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming: Wow - what a ride!"

http://wwwjolielle.blogspot.com/
Celestialsailor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2013, 18:32   #198
Registered User
 
ElGatoGordo's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Kemah, TX
Boat: Jim Michalak designed 25' Caprice and Self Design 32' Shantymaran
Posts: 711
Quote:
Originally Posted by cat man do

It's interesting to note that some of those that support the Japanese and think its OK to kill whales have guns.

Just sayin...
One, that non-answer means you have none, and two, I've clearly said their both wrong...and have guns
__________________
------------------
Gordo
ElGatoGordo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2013, 18:39   #199
Registered User
 
Dsanduril's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: South Pacific
Boat: Outremer 50S
Posts: 1,451
Re: Pirates operating in Southern Ocean........

Quote:
Originally Posted by mcarling View Post
No, the UNCLOS definition of piracy requires that the acts in question must be committed for private ends, while Sea Shepard is acting for public ends. This is the error in the judge's ruling.
While you and they may think that the actions are for the "public" good, from a legal perspective they are private citizens acting privately. Private citizens acting privately can still do things for the communal (public) good, but it is still private action. To be a public action would require sanction by a government. And that would then make the Sea Shepherds privateers rather than pirates.
__________________
Dsanduril is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2013, 19:15   #200
Certifiable Refitter/Senior Wannbe
 
Wotname's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: South of 43 S, Australia
Boat: Van DeStat Super Dogger 31'
Posts: 7,331
Re: Pirates operating in Southern Ocean........

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimbo485 View Post
......
I realise it is all legal twisting and turning. The primary "official" reason to hunt legally is science. But where does it say how the whales must be disposed of, following dissection and scientific research? Incinerated, buried, eaten, supermarket shelves? I can't find the detail. Can you, CMD?
Oh heck, I tried to stay outta this one.

On the legal side, yes they can take the 1,000 whales for scientific and research reasons - no argument (legally). After that they can presumably dispose of the remains as they see fit.

However, if there is no research and advancement of genuine scientific understanding, then what they are doing is legally wrong.

Of course that doesn't matter (legally) if no one gets them before a court (and what court?).

Morally - different kettle of fish and I will stay outta that one today
__________________
All men dream: but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangereous men, for they may act their dreams with open eyes, to make it possible. T.E. Lawrence
Wotname is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2013, 19:25   #201
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Montegut LA.
Boat: Now we need to get her to Louisiana !! she's ours
Posts: 3,421
Re: Pirates operating in Southern Ocean........

Well I consider myself to be part of the public, and the Sea shepherd are sure not working for me !! In fact I feel as part of the worlds Public, they are harming me as I would sure hate to be trying to cruise the southern ocean in the middle of this stupid war !! Both sides are wrong ! but thats always the way of war !! anywhere ! Ive been in a couple of those before and sure don't want to ever be in a war zone again !! just my 2 cents
__________________
Bob and Connie
bobconnie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2013, 19:39   #202
Registered User
 
avb3's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Florida/Alberta
Boat: Lippincott 30
Posts: 9,913
Images: 1
Re: Pirates operating in Southern Ocean........

Quote:
Originally Posted by captain58sailin View Post
............ There is no need to hunt the whales, it is wrong, whether a court says so or not.
You may be right, however, does that allow Watson and crew to endanger seamen's lives at sea?
__________________
If your attitude resembles the south end of a bull heading north, it's time to turn around.
avb3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2013, 20:35   #203
Resin Head
 
minaret's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Seattle WA
Boat: Nauticat
Posts: 7,199
Images: 52
Re: Pirates operating in Southern Ocean........

I find it really entertaining that the majority of this thread is neatly and hilariously summed up in the one minute video I posted at the beginning.


I really like the end, when after they have tricked the Japanese into thinking that cows and pigs piloted the Enola Gay, since their earlier lie about dolphins and whales having done it backfired, the Japanese begin to slaughter cows and pigs instead. Stan's dad looks at him and says " good job son, now the Japanese are normal, just like us". Priceless. Pigs are smarter than whales you know, but since they taste oh so good...
__________________
minaret is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2013, 21:09   #204
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Mackay,QLD, Australia
Boat: planning a approx 45ft cat
Posts: 3,651
Images: 3
Re: Pirates operating in Southern Ocean........

Quote:
Originally Posted by hellosailor View Post
tcg-
I'm not comparing Lisa Simpson to you, or vice versa. She is, topically, a poster girl for conserving all sorts of things including whales.

So you're saying, it is OK to hunt and kill and eat, unless the victim is from an endangered species? If we could raise the whales in captivity, then it would OK to use them for dog food? No, I don't think that is what you mean, I say it because the extinction criteria is only one of several arbitrary ones.

And yes, I do think the WWF aggrandized themselves. "Bronx Zoo" was good enough until they decided to start big time fund raising. If they are conserving endangered species because that's good for business--say so. If it is for empathy with other species, well...there's that hot dog cart, and I'm told pigs are just as loveable as dogs, once you get past the "thousand pounds and will eat anything" bit.

I don't see any purpose to the whaling and the Japanese plea of "cultural" doesn't impress me any more than their sun-god-emperor did. Then again, I think paying a basketball player (a corporate franchise employee?!) ten million a year makes no sense either. I'm so easily puzzled by these things.
Yes

The WWF are the most self richious, stuck up , know all mob. In Australia they attempt to embed themselves with government to achieve their aims. ie The Coral Sea Marine National Park. Will protect Tuna etc from fishing in the Coral Sea and put Australian fishermen out of business only to be caught when they move north to PNG and Asia to be caught by Thai and others. Net result we import more fish, Smart. So the Industry ends up answering to them as much as Govt.

Will also mean we as cruisers can't fish when we are in the area.
__________________
downunder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2013, 03:38   #205
Armchair Bucketeer
 
David_Old_Jersey's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 10,013
Images: 4
Re: Pirates operating in Southern Ocean........

Quote:
Originally Posted by cat man do View Post
Right, so they ARE breaking the law despite what you said earlier.
It's only an agreement between members of the IWC (International Whaling Commission) - not a law.

If it was a law there would also be a court that could decide on cases and issue judgements, then penalties on any wrongdoers and then arrange enforcement internationally (boots on the ground or simply fines).......but there are none of those, because it is not a law......one of the side effects of not having a World Government (and be careful what you wish for on international laws, especially when it involves "morality" - "you" (and your views of what is normal / acceptable) will be in a minority of numbers).

Arguably the Japanese are breaking the agreement, in spirit if not in fact - but, it's only an agreement and with no penalties then so what? It's legal......the Japanese could simply leave the IWC and the ban would no longer apply to them at all - and therefore they could kill every last whale for commercial reasons (dog food?!) 100% legally. But they don't. and given that the whale stocks do appear to be recovering then it is a non issue and only of concern to those who favour whales over goats (goatists ).
David_Old_Jersey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2013, 03:46   #206
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: sydney, australia
Boat: 38 roberts ketch
Posts: 1,021
Images: 3
Re: Pirates operating in Southern Ocean........

who gives a rats what some court in the US thinks, we won again, the japs go home without doing what they wanted to and sooner or later they'll give up altogether
__________________
charliehows is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2013, 04:39   #207
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 650
Re: Pirates operating in Southern Ocean........

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dsanduril View Post
While you and they may think that the actions are for the "public" good, from a legal perspective they are private citizens acting privately. Private citizens acting privately can still do things for the communal (public) good, but it is still private action. To be a public action would require sanction by a government. And that would then make the Sea Shepherds privateers rather than pirates.
I have two LLMs in international law and I teach international law. You are confusing public/private actors with public/private ends. You sound like someone who has never seen a boat (except on TV) lecturing professional mariners about sailing. There is a long legal tradition that piracy involves material self-enrichment. You don't have to agree with, approve of, or accept what Sea Shepard are doing, but it does not meet the definition of piracy in international law.
__________________
Poseidon is an unmerciful god.
mcarling is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2013, 05:08   #208
Registered User
 
DennisM's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: New Paltz, NY
Boat: 1990 Ericson 32-200
Posts: 603
Images: 3
Send a message via Skype™ to DennisM
Re: Pirates operating in Southern Ocean........

Uh oh. Now we got the lawyers involved. See what you guys started?
__________________
"Man is the only animal that blushes. Or needs to."
- Mark Twain
DennisM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2013, 05:21   #209
Wayfaring Mariner
 
captain58sailin's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Homer, AK is my home port
Boat: Skookum 53'
Posts: 4,045
Images: 5
Re: Pirates operating in Southern Ocean........

I hold a letter of Marque from the sovereign nation of Alaska, that allows me to board your vessel, drink your beer & rum and eat what ever leftovers there are in the cooler.
__________________
" Wisdom; is your reward for surviving your mistakes"
captain58sailin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2013, 05:45   #210
Registered User
 
Blue Crab's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Hurricane Highway
Boat: Cal 29
Posts: 3,882
pirate Re: Pirates operating in Southern Ocean........



Caption: ____________________________
__________________

__________________
Blue Crab is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off




Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 04:58.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.