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Old 01-03-2013, 09:11   #136
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Re: Pirates operating in Southern Ocean........

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Originally Posted by SimonV View Post
so why not let the Japs fill their quotas and maybe the sailing encounters with the whales will remain exciting and not become more and more frighting.
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... why not save the cows/chickens/ants?
Because:
  • As a species, we're past the need for indiscriminate killing, we have choice, and if we're going to choose, let's start with not killing the animals who have a demonstrated intelligence and complexity and social structure that's not that far from our own. Call it professional courtesy.
  • Modern whaling is still fairly brutal, cruel and inhumane, whereas the slaughter of our normal food animals is arguably less cruel.
  • Killing whales and dolphins is not currently necessary for our survival or meeting some significant commercial demand (including in Japan)
  • The fact that something scares some sailors doesn't seem like much of a justification for killing them. Coming soon - the Raymarine WhaleWatcherŽ cetacean detection system
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Old 01-03-2013, 09:12   #137
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Re: Pirates operating in Southern Ocean........

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tcg, I'm not asking who else is in the selective protection business.

But why protect these, not those. Why protect there, not here.

Blow up a whaling ship? OK, you've saved a thousand whale souls. Shut down Purdue, and you've saved millions of chickens.

WWF, who as I recall are the upscaled name for the old Bronx Zoo, aren't saving any chickens, are they? Haven't banned hot dog sales from the premises, have they?

Lisa Simpson, cover your eyes.
I didn't realize chickens and hot dogs were endangered species.

If you want to know why efforts are focused on fighting for some species more than others, check out the WWF link. In a nutshell though, it is because these species are ENDANGERED, under threat from illegal hunting, deforestation, commercial fisheries and other stupid unsustainable human activities. Also it's common sense. If you have limited resources and want to protect the biodiversity of the planet you focus your efforts on those areas/ species most under threat.

Chickens are not an endangered species. Are they treated unethically by commercial enterprises? Absolutely and there are organizations working on implementing standards for the humane treatment of not endangered animals being commercially processed for those humans who choose to eat them.

I'm sure you understand that no non-profit is perfect, not Sea Shepard or WWF, or any other organization ever. People do what they can based on their best judgements and the research under the circumstances that exist. They employ different methods to do that. You can agree or not with their mission statements and tactics but at least educate yourself. You asked why we weren't protecting lions and tigers and bears. I gave you evidence by way of a link that in fact some people are. Just like some people are trying to protect sharks and dolphins and whales.

And really what does it matter where the work of an organization started? Trying to discredit the work WWF does today because you seem to recall they started way back out of the Bronx Zoo and the Bronx Zoo sells hot dogs is inane. And what's with the Lisa Simpson remark? Are you attempting to discredit my argument by implying I'm a young, naive, woman based on my forum moniker? 3 strikes so I can't possibly understand the world? Puhleeze. Attacking the person rather than the argument is so not cool.

But if you meant to compare me to Lisa because she's so freaking smart and feisty, well then, ok.
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Old 01-03-2013, 09:16   #138
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Re: Pirates operating in Southern Ocean........

Zeehag: To continue to do something that is considered "traditional, cultural or custom" is a poor argument. After all, "honour killing and bride burning" to name but two are both "cultural" practices that are still carried out in certain areas of the world and most reasonable people would consider these practices abhorrent.
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Old 01-03-2013, 09:23   #139
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Re: Pirates operating in Southern Ocean........

Okay I haven't read all of the posts on this thread but I have to say from what I have read this is a pretty awesome discussion. Endangered species, global food production, traditional/ cultural practices and knowledge and their role today, social action tactics and responsibilities, political will or lack thereof... wow! Whodathunk all that from a "pirate" thread.
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Old 01-03-2013, 09:43   #140
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Re: Pirates operating in Southern Ocean........

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Apparently only cute creatures are worth saving and sharks etc. don't qualify. If everything looked like baby seals the celebs would be falling over each other trying to get on the band wagon.
Especially since the seals don't need saving.
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Old 01-03-2013, 09:47   #141
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Re: Pirates operating in Southern Ocean........

"Man is the only animal that blushes. Or needs to."
- Mark Twain
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Old 01-03-2013, 10:32   #142
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Re: Pirates operating in Southern Ocean........

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Thanks for starting this troll thread DOJ, the other two are getting boring...
This one was boring before it started.

We are about to lose international waters - I can see it coming already. Soon, all the world's ocean's will be under sovereign control of the various global superpowers.
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Old 01-03-2013, 10:38   #143
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pirate Re: Pirates operating in Southern Ocean........

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...
Incidentally, there are people who believe that if "it" is sentient enough to try to escape, it is too "sentient" to eat!
Excuse me, Mrs Cate, but but but that would only leave fruits and veggies.

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One of the big arguments in the "global starvation" issue is that you can feed many many more people with grain directly, if you don't waste it on feeding livestock of various sorts.
I've been reading enough about what's in processed milk lately to stop doing the dairy thing completely. It's creepy, but I think the really worst thing about the dairy business is that it apparently requires 1500 gallons of water to end up with a gallon of processed milk.

Well, I feel better. Now back to pirates.
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Old 01-03-2013, 10:40   #144
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Re: Pirates operating in Southern Ocean........

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Excuse me, Mrs Cate, but but but that would only leave fruits and veggies.
And cows, who do not try to escape when someone sneaks up behind them while their attention is being held elsewhere. I think they do make kind of a jerking motion while the hole is being formed in their brains, but I don't know if you could really call that an attempt at escaping.

Not much of an attempt, anyway.
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Old 01-03-2013, 10:42   #145
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Re: Pirates operating in Southern Ocean........

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Well, I feel better. Now back to pirates.
MMM, pirates! Sauteed, fricasay'd, baked, boiled, or fried.. there's just no wrong way to cook a pirate!
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Old 01-03-2013, 10:55   #146
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Everthin's better fried!
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Old 01-03-2013, 11:28   #147
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Re: Pirates operating in Southern Ocean........

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Zeehag: To continue to do something that is considered "traditional, cultural or custom" is a poor argument. After all, "honour killing and bride burning" to name but two are both "cultural" practices that are still carried out in certain areas of the world and most reasonable people would consider these practices abhorrent.
Not sure where the bride burning happens - IMO would kinda take the fun out of the honeymoon .......I think you might be talking about Widow burning (Sati).

Could also throw in the sexual mutiliation of children - even in the west still considered by many to be acceptable, even if only of one sex. Tribalism .

Given that whale stocks do appear to be slowly recovering then IMO what the Japanese do is irrelevant to the species surviving. "doing something" is all very nice, but doing something that actually has a point would be better. The only purpose that "saving" whales in the Sea Shepherd manner does is to feed the ego of those involved.
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Old 01-03-2013, 11:42   #148
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Re: Pirates operating in Southern Ocean........

ok.. so, if these species need to have intervention to the tune if befouling other nations and their cultural disagreements with us and vice versa,
who is it that appointed a bunch of boat smashing and sinking outlaws to be the whale police.
has someone appointed usa to be god of the world?? i do not remember that election...
why is it so important to launch a full out war on folks doing their jobs.

i still do not follow the lack of logic required to condone the full out attacks on fishing ships by ships that are sent out by someone to destroy these fishing ships--

why is it they are considered ok and yet the japanese ships are bad guys--seems a lil other way around to me. one doesnt go to sea to destroy the lives of others. that is what is being done.
who declared the perpetrators if the incidents--sea shepherd--as official keeper of the seas--i do not remember them becoming sanctioned.
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Old 01-03-2013, 11:45   #149
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Re: Pirates operating in Southern Ocean........

If the whales are engaging in bride burning and child mutilation, then I say let the Japs have them
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Old 01-03-2013, 12:04   #150
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Re: Pirates operating in Southern Ocean........

I do have a problem with the pirates drinking all my rum and hot chocolate. Orcas love baby seals, grown sea lions, and pretty much all fish. They are highly organized intelligent predators. Not unlike humans. I have watched a humpback whale and her baby use my vessel as a screen so that an Orca hunting them could not detect them. As far as sentience goes, there is a plethora of scientific data showing plants to have intelligence and feelings as well. There is no need to hunt the whales, it is wrong, whether a court says so or not.
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