PIRATES - Gulf of Aden (Sunday 22 June)

[john connell]

Hi,
First of all I hope those poor unfortunate German souls are released unharmed.Would expect they will since the media have hold of it but it really makes me wonder what I would do if it happened to me.
I like hellosailors version.Vector in a few A6 Warthogs now and then and stitch their hulls with a bit of the hot stuff.Sink a few and they just might get the message- expensive but effective.
Joking of course but it would be a deterrent.

IMHO the best deterrent to any pirates is a very cheap version of torture.
It happened to me not in the jungles and not in a prison in some far off land.
On the way down to the snowfields here in Oz. Many years ago a friend ( ex since then ) played a Barry Manilow AND a Tracey Chapman tape over and over and over for 6 hours.-and sang along to it.
I was frozen in shock and couldnt speak at this attrocity being carried out on my mind.I swear if someone would have handed me a razor blade it would have been an easy choice.

Try the new " Pirate Shield "
Set up a very powerful CD system with a 6 stacker with all of Barry Manilows greatest hits.Set it on repeat whenever you reach dodgy areas.
Bit like the shark shield someone invented a few years back.

Watch them run downwind screaming.

catmando.
Thats a great link, thanks.Wasn't aware these sort of rallies occured as a rule other than informal ones.Joining in on one of those would make my partner a bit more comfortable if we ever get to travel up there by boat.Have been to Indo half a dozen times ( land based ) and had a few scary experiences and would expect being on the water exposed could be twice as scary at times.

Anyone done this run or know someone who has ??

marlborosounds,
Like your way of thinking about banding together.Collectively seems the way to go rather than singularly in some parts of the world for obvious reasons.

Maybe we could just tether exfishnz to the end of the convoy as bait LOL.

Sorry exman,couldn't help that.But make sure you don't build the slow boat when you get around to your design.

Regards
JC

[Chiroeurope]

As my wife put it. LIVE FIRE TRAINING MISSION. I am slightly joking, she is not. Than Again We Italians have things like this happen and well it get's fixed.

Michael

[exfishnz]

Originally Posted by john connell

Maybe we could just tether exfishnz to the end of the convoy as bait LOL.

Sorry exman,couldn't help that.But make sure you don't build the slow boat when you get around to your design.

At 57hp for 35' LOD she hopefully won't be too slow, but she'll run outta diesel fast!

[john connell]

Originally Posted by Chiroeurope

As my wife put it. LIVE FIRE TRAINING MISSION. I am slightly joking, she is not. Than Again We Italians have things like this happen and well it get's fixed.

Michael

Hey Michael,
Your wife may be on to something.Practice does make perfect.

The italian way ?I like it.
An Italian frigate with a few concrete trucks on board running around the oceans.
A couple of 50 litre drums per pirate.Give em the old cement shoes treatment.?
Another way to fix the downtime problem the Cosa Nostra has now and then- multiskilling to boot ( so to speak ).lol.

exfishnz.
Yeah, you'll outrun me that's for sure.I hope pirate shield does work .

Regards
JC

[exfishnz]

Originally Posted by john connell

I hope pirate shield does work

Its called a steel hull

[Martinini]

I see a business opportunity for someone. What about a privately owned gunboat for convoy escort in these areas? I would pay for the protection if it were available. doesn't have to be Western owned either. I say this in reference to the Privateers of old.

[hellosailor]

Uh, that's letters of MARQUE and reprisal, a marquis is petty royalty. [g] Letters of marque and reprisal were and are perfect for this situation, the problem is that at least here in the US Congress is often reluctant to abrogate long-established treaties like the ones banning the issuing of those letters. And, quite frankly, they aren't bright enough (or they're terrified of opening cans of worms) to pursue other alternatives.

A friend has an old painting over his couch of great-great-etc-granther's merchantman, which sailed with cannon and Letters of Marque and Reprisal. It worked well enough, the old man came home, made proftis, and had progeny.[g]

Fish, a steel hull might not stop as much as you think. AK47 and the like at 200 yards, yes. Slightly heavier weapons (NATO standard 7.62x51, usually mis-called .308) will punch right through it at 100 yards. then they just rattle around inside the boat, instead of exiting the other side. Not a good thing.

Even in Iraq, the mercenaries aren't allowed to carry more than sidearms. In theory.

I think I'd rather ask the Pope to declare my vessel to be a consulate and then I could justify anything "in defense of the Holy See". (ta-bum!)

[exfishnz]

hellosailor,

I can't discuss it with you on this forum because last time I did with someone else the posts got deleted

[Martinini]

helosailor--check reason for editing first post. Not sure but I don't think the USA ever did make a difinitive agreement against this option.
United States
Article 1 of the United States Constitution lists issuing letters of marque and reprisal in Section 8 as one of the enumerated powers of Congress. One question is whether Congress can issue such a letter to the President, as an authorization for limited offensive warlike operations outside the territory of the United States. In 2002, Douglas Kmiec, then dean of the Columbus School of Law at the Catholic University of America, testified before the Senate Judiciary Committee that:
"
Letters of Marque and Reprisal are grants of authority from Congress to private citizens, not the President. Their purpose is to expressly authorize seizure and forfeiture of goods by such citizens in the context of undeclared hostilities. Without such authorization, the citizen could be treated under international law as a pirate. Occasions where one's citizens undertake hostile activity can often entangle the larger sovereignty, and therefore, it was sensible for Congress to desire to have a regulatory check upon it. Authorizing Congress to moderate or oversee private action, however, says absolutely nothing about the President's responsibilities under the Constitution.[1]
"

Because the difference between a privateer and a pirate was a subtle (often invisible) one, in 1856 the issuance of Letters of Marque and Reprisal to private parties was banned for signatories of the Declaration of Paris. The United States was not a signatory to that Declaration and is not bound by it.
The issue of Marque and Reprisal was raised before Congress by Rep. Ron Paul of Texas after the September 11, 2001 attacksHYPERLINK \l "wp-_note-1"[2], and again on July 21, 2007. Paul, defining the attacks as an act of "air piracy," introduced the Marque and Reprisal Act of 2001, which would have granted the president the authority to use Letters of Marque and Reprisal against the specific terrorists, instead of warring against a foreign state. Paul compared the terrorists to pirates in that they are difficult to fight by traditional military means.[3]
Examples of some famous privateers include
Alexander Godfrey
Francis Drake

[hellosailor]

Ah, Ron Paul. Will someone please get him a show of his own on Fox and get him away from Congress?!

Our friends at the Wikipedia seem to think the US made a voluntary declaration that it would conform to the Treaty of Paris...and either way, Congress isn't going to issue any new letters. They don't like rocking the boat.

The good news is (at least, when I last looked it up in the USC) if you're a US citizen the penalty for piracy is something like $5000 (which was a huge sum when the laws were written) instead of death. So by all means, there's a good opportunity to just say "I'm a pirate who preys on pirates!" instead of trying to do things legally.

[capcook]

Originally Posted by Martinini

I see a business opportunity for someone. What about a privately owned gunboat for convoy escort in these areas? I would pay for the protection if it were available. doesn't have to be Western owned either. I say this in reference to the Privateers of old.

Now that is an excellent idea...how many tyrant's heads do you think we could have bought for a fraction of what the Iraq war is costing... I say put a bounty on the Pirates payable by the US Govt... say $10k/hd and special ones at 2 or 3 x that rate... bet you would get a boat load in no time... Heck their own kin folks would be shooting em... SOBs...

cheers

[vveerrgg]

Originally Posted by Martinini

I see a business opportunity for someone. What about a privately owned gunboat for convoy escort in these areas? I would pay for the protection if it were available. doesn't have to be Western owned either. I say this in reference to the Privateers of old.

Sounds like a whole racket to me. Protection money to sail a straight?

If it smells like racketeering it because it is racketeering.

"pay this gunboat or another gunboat will sink or rob you"

great idea. NOT

[Alondra]

Ok... I'll try one more time.
It seems that none of all you posters have ever been to the area so, while we have been through this year give you a little update. Further, if you want to post, ask yourself if you know anything about the situation and not just say something to say something. It blurrrs the post and is not helpful in anyway to anybody.

1. So far this year there have been some 15 incidents on piracy in the gulf of Aden
2. every year, some 200 and not 100 yachts are passing by this area going either north or south.
3. Everybody is adviced to stay at least not 50 but 150 miles away of the Somalian coast, that is close to yemen
4. Yemens coast is concidered safe, there is a very active coast guard there
5. There are no reported incidents of the coast of Oman
6. Shooting makes no sence. These little attack boats are very quick and often they have a very different perspective of life and death all around. First you have to shoot a lot of people, often more than 6 or 7 are on board one boat and if you dare, you have to succeed.
7. They don't shoot at Halyards!! Haha!! They don't even know what they look like! (and for all, I have an infurl)
8. International forces are there (italians, dutch, us, uk, french, aus, canada) and doing a lot of patrolling and since recently even in Somalian waters.
9. The french boat was captured with all crew on board? What did you exepect the french to do? Shoot it??
10. A monthly or two weeks planned passage is vertualy impossible or very hard to plan as you are very dependent on the weather in that area, You simply cannot go all the time you want.
11. Staying away is not a very simple option. You have to cross on your way over to the med or vice versa if you don't want to go around Africa, bringing all sorts of problems
12. In convoi you are quite safe, and there are always yachts waiting in Salalah( oman), Mukallah ( Yemen) and Aden (yemen) to accompany you.
13. That coalition forces are not willing to pay is again BS. They burn so much fuel there that this little bit could care them less! We have seen them litterally dropping a message to one of our friends, coming wit a warship all the way from India to the Omani coast. For fun. Further, and you will notice that if you have been there, there is a large number of vessels out at sea there supporting the war in Irak so there is a lot of movement, but.. the area however small it may be is larger tha you expect.
14. Given the number of incidents, yes, chances are there that you run in trouble but. if you follow some rules, you are pretty well of.
The german couple for one ran very close to the somalian coast, don't do it. And oh oh yes, it is not the first boat held hostage, there was the french boat and we know of one other that was taken to a bay, people taken from board, completely stripped and than given back to them.

Any questions on the matter, let me know.

[Alondra]

Ok... I'll try one more time. (i tried to edit my first post but ran out of time, here is the complete and better version!!!)
It seems that none (or very few) of all you posters have ever been to the area so, while we have been through this year give you a little update. Further, if you want to post, ask yourself if you know anything about the situation and not just say something to say something. It blurrrs the post and is not helpful in anyway to anybody.

1. So far the first 6 months there have been some 24 incidents on piracy in the gulf of Aden, both yachts and merchant ships
2. every year, some 200 and not 100 yachts are passing by this area going either north or south.
3. Everybody is adviced to stay at least not 50 but 150 miles away of the Somalian coast, that is close to yemen
4. Yemens coast is concidered safe, there is a very active coast guard there
5. There are no reported incidents of the coast of Oman
6. Shooting makes no sence. These little attack boats are very quick and often they have a very different perspective of life and death all around. Weapons to them is second nature and the harsh invironment they live in makes it that they shoot quite easy. So, first you have to (dare!) shoot a lot of people, often more than 6 or 7 are on board one boat and if you dare, you have to succeed. If you mis one, you may get killed (after they rape you and your wife?).
7. THEY DON'T SHOOT AT HALYARDS!! Haha!! They don't even know what they look like and have you ever shot a gun from a rolling boat?! (and for all, I have an infurl)
8. International forces are there (italians, dutch, us, uk, french, aus, canada) and doing a lot of patrolling and since recently even in Somalian waters. Canada recently anounced to send HMCS Ville de Quebec from Halifax over to especially help against piracy attacks
9. The french boat was captured with all crew on board? What did you exepect the french to do? Shoot it??
10. A monthly or two weeks planned passage is vertualy impossible or very hard to plan as you are very dependent on the weather in that area, You simply cannot go all the time you want.
11. Staying away is not a very simple option. You have to cross on your way over to the med or vice versa if you don't want to go around Africa, bringing all sorts of problems
12. In convoi you are quite safe, and there are always yachts waiting in Salalah( oman), Mukallah ( Yemen) and Aden (yemen) to accompany you.
13. That coalition forces are not willing to pay is again BS. They burn so much fuel there that this little bit (extra) could care them less! We have seen them litterally dropping a message to one of our friends, coming wit a warship all the way from India to the Omani coast. For fun. Further, and you will notice that if you have been there, there is a large number of vessels out at sea there supporting the war in Irak so there is a lot of movement, but.. the area however small it may be is larger than you expect and the boats involved very small most of the times.
14. Given the number of incidents, yes, chances are there that you run in trouble but. if you follow some rules, you are pretty well of.
The german couple for one ran very close to the somalian coast, don't do it. And oh oh yes, it is not the first boat held hostage, there was the french boat and we know of one other that was taken to a bay, people taken from board, completely stripped and than given back to them.
15. Mr. Jurgen K. (age 63) and Mrs. Sabina M. (age 51) are the names of the german couple. They are currently still held hostage since the 22nd of june or around that date in a remote area of Badhan district of Sanaag a very rough terrain and not easy to reach. Last reports are that they are well allthough Mr. Jorgan is suffering from diabetis and needs medicines. They are now in their third month of capture.
16. There is an unconfirmed message indicating that they also held a french captain of the same boat and a seven or eight year old boy.
17. the 22nd of July a japanese ship was hijacked, Stella Maris (panama flag) was boarded by 38 men. The crew of this ship consists of 20 Philippine sailors
18. And here I come to the final problem. Flying a 'convinient' flag such as that of Panama or Vanuatu makes you vulnarable. Since these governments don't care about a 'foreign' crew and thus they are not likely to step in and do something. The pirates therefor can go a long way before getting harmed.

Any questions on the matter, let me know.

[Talbot]

Originally Posted by JohnnyB

Seemingly Unarmed, and when they respond....

Kill them all.

Send in another decoy...

Rinse, Repeat....

It will not be long before these animals flee in terror from unarmed yachts.

Hmm pirates who grow up with weapons and have access to much bigger weapons being sunk by an untrained small crew who have hired a rifle - anyone else see the stupidity here

It is a well established fact that you are at a higher risk if you have a weapon, but dont know how it should be used

If your crew is ex-military, then that may be different