PIRATES - Gulf of Aden (Sunday 22 June)

[Alondra]

even military or ex military.... not a good chance

[Lodesman]

Originally Posted by Alondra

13. That coalition forces are not willing to pay is again BS. They burn so much fuel there that this little bit (extra) could care them less! We have seen them litterally dropping a message to one of our friends, coming wit a warship all the way from India to the Omani coast. For fun. Further, and you will notice that if you have been there, there is a large number of vessels out at sea there supporting the war in Irak so there is a lot of movement, but.. the area however small it may be is larger than you expect and the boats involved very small most of the times.

I appreciate your opinions and experience with your other points but with this one you clearly don't have a clue. Trust me when I say warships do not go from India to Oman for fun - perhaps their area of operations allowed them the flexibility to do drop the message, or they were repositioning anyway, but captains are very cognizant of their fuel bills. My previous posts to this subject have never suggested that warships could not be used to escort cruisers, but rather that cruisers are way down on the list of priorities. Long before them, they would be running convoys of merchant ships - which hasn't happened yet. And before they do that, they will do humanitarian escorts - this is soon to happen as a Canadian ship is proceeding to that area to escort World Food Programme ships to Somalia at the request of the UN. It's very telling that when the UN asked, that only one nation (so far) has responded. The highest priority for warships are their own governments' foreign policies, and that sometimes includes their commitments to their allies (ie NATO).

Millions (possibly billions) of dollars worth of goods and commodities transit through that region on a daily basis - in the ships that are targeted most often by pirates, and not the UN, not NATO nor any individual government has committed a single ship to anti-piracy convoy escort duty. Does that tell you how likely it is that coalition warships will escort cruisers on a regular basis?

JMO,

Kevin

[Alondra]

I have not stated that they will escort (I stated that is not possible). Their presence, and we have spoken to several of them, is besides the merchant fleet also to protect the cruisers. The french yacht this spring is a good example of their reaction. The Italian Navy caught in three incidents several pirates in the middle of April of which we where informed by the Italian naval commander personally. And yes, they did bring a message, a long way out from their route.

[Lodesman]

Originally Posted by Alondra

I have not stated that they will escort (I stated that is not possible).

Then what did you imply by saying "That coalition forces are not willing to pay is again BS"?

Their presence, and we have spoken to several of them, is besides the merchant fleet also to protect the cruisers.

Their presence has been coincidental. 'Anti-piracy patrolling' has only been piggy-backed onto other operations, or it's been a happy coincidence the ships were in transit to or from the Suez canal. Of course, they're going to come to the aid of cruisers being attacked by pirates just as readily as they would to a commercial vessel, just as they would with any other form of distress. The fact remains that there is no standing anti-piracy force in that region, nor is there the will from any government to put one there (afaik). The French "yacht" you mention, was a cruise ship. The naval "reaction" is a good example of a happy coincidence - there just happened to be a Canadian frigate steaming through the area when the distress call occurred - had it not been for that good fortune, Le Ponant could have been lost like a lot of other pirated ships.

And yes, they did bring a message, a long way out from their route.

How do you know their route? Most navies are secretive about their routing and operations. Opsec, you know. I didn't say they didn't deliver a message; I did say that I doubted your assertion it was "for fun". Tracking and finding a yacht would be a good exercise for a warship - worth even a reasonable deviation from its nav-track. It is extremely unlikely that this exercise would have been allowed to impede on its operational commitments.

Again jmo,

Kevin

[Alondra]

Obviously you have not been following the situation in the Gulf of Aden.
The UN took on specifically a resulotion to actively pursui pirates in the gulfregion, especially Somailia. Resolution 1816 states that foreign countries may use "all necessary means" to do so, including entering somalian waters.
A task force, which was already in place, has been further extended and intensified.
There is no difference in cruising boats and merchant ships. As a matter of fact they both take the same route, so you litteraly follow almost the same shipping lane.
And yes, we knew their route.
The french ship was a yacht, a charter yacht, just as ours. And the response was not a coincedance. We know wher it happened (close to the yemenite coast) and there where several naval warships on patrol (also french), as was the yemenite coastguard.

[lenseman]

Somali pirates free the two people whom they kidnapped and held since late June.

Somali pirates free two German hostages-sources | Reuters

News | Africa - Reuters.com

[Alondra]

good news!!

[Lodesman]

Originally Posted by Alondra

Obviously you have not been following the situation in the Gulf of Aden.
The UN took on specifically a resulotion to actively pursui pirates in the gulfregion, especially Somailia. Resolution 1816 states that foreign countries may use "all necessary means" to do so, including entering somalian waters.

Trust me, I follow the situation in the GOA. I suggest you actually read UNSCR 1816 - the key point is that the provisional Somali government has allowed other governments' warships or coast guard ships to treat Somali TTW as the high sea with regard to prosecuting pirates on a temporary basis. The rest of it is just filler, that does nothing to change pre-existing rules against piracy, other than affirm the UN's commitment to uphold them.

A task force, which was already in place, has been further extended and intensified.

You're talking about CTF 150- whose primary role is to inderdict illicit shipping that funds or otherwise supports terrorists - as part of the ongoing 'war on terrorism.' The GOA is just one small part of their AOR. You'll have to explain how you think they've been "further extended and intensified"?

There is no difference in cruising boats and merchant ships. As a matter of fact they both take the same route, so you litteraly follow almost the same shipping lane.
And yes, we knew their route.

Well there are differences between cruising boats and merchant ships, but I take your point about them taking the same route - I don't believe this was a matter of contention, so I don't know why you mention it.
Warships are another matter - while merchants and cruisers go the best route from A to B, warships often leave A, go here and there, patrol around an area and return to A, maybe with stop-offs in C, D and E - all directed by the whims of operational requirements. You contradict yourself if you assert that a warship went out of its way to deliver a message, if you now state they were following the same shipping lane as the cruiser. I would be interested to know why you feel you know the route of a warship - as NATO ships and the ships of CTF 150 keep their movemnts classified. Perhaps you don't know as much as you think you do.

The french ship was a yacht, a charter yacht, just as ours.

Except that it has 32 passenger cabins and runs cruises - Le Ponant Italy cruises

If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck...

And the response was not a coincedance. We know wher it happened (close to the yemenite coast) and there where several naval warships on patrol (also french), as was the yemenite coastguard.

I didn't say the response was a coincidence - I said it was coincidental that a warship was as close as it was - the Canadian ship was returning to Canada from the Arabian Sea - its helicopter was the first unit on scene and it was still an hour's flying time away. IIRC, the Cmdt Bouan (the French warship that became on-scene commander) took almost a day to get there. To say they were close to the Yemeni coast really exposes your ignorance, unless by "close" you mean "midway between Yemen and Somalia." I don't know if it's been told or not, but I suspect Le Ponant ran the gap at Socotra (like so many merchant vessels) on their way from the Seychelles to the Med. I also don't recall the Yemeni coast guard playing any role in this event. The point being that the ocean area involved is too large to allow "wall-to-wall" coverage by warships, and had Charlottetown not been steaming by, then Le Ponant very likely would have been spirited into a pirate-haven on the Somali coast and the outcome could have been very different.

[lenseman]

Looks like even with all the worlds Grey Funnel jobbies in the Straights, piracy is on the up and up!

AFP: Yemen probes suspected piracy in Gulf of Aden

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[marlborosounds]

G'day,
The sad thing about it all people is its going to happen 1st of all because most goverments dont care and it also takes the camera off of them when they are up to no good.
Pirates have been on the sea's since man made crafts to move from one place to another by water. Yes most navy's dont post on internet where they are going but I can promise you if you have a few chunks of radio active material on your junk as ballast they will find you and fairly fast. Unless your an American Nuke Sub leaking radiation and then you might be over looked for 2 years.
Other wise they tend to shy off or stay hid but someone someplace is close by incase.
I guess short of having your boat stolen or robbed its kinda the same as going through customs at differnt ports of displeasure as the agent walks away with a 100$ bottle of your favorite spirits plus a few other things.
Either legal or illegal man will always have to pay someplace sometime to someone.
Hell maybe i should just open up a united floating mega mart in International waters. Can sell food, petro, sails, slips and even some monthly moring's, then people can rest up and stock up on goodies plus mount that new 50 Cal flare machingun on the front of thier yachts before they start up the straights. Never heard of anyone being charged for shooting 50 calibur flares at people. If anything it might resemble tracer rounds and scare off the pirates.
Cheers

[lenseman]

Attention is drawn to the following intelligence report:

ICC Commercial Crime Services

[GordMay]

Thanks for the heads up lensman. Important & specific information.

Originally Posted by lenseman

Attention is drawn to the following intelligence report:

ICC Commercial Crime Services

On August 7, the International Maritime Bureau's Piracy Reporting Centre issued a warning to all ships transiting the Gulf of Aden that "intelligence sources revealed that there are now two suspicious trawlers in the Gulf of Aden believed to be pirate mother vessels looking to attack ships with the intent to hijack."
Goto lensman's link: ICC Commercial Crime Services

See also “General Warning – Piracy in the Gulf of Aden”
S5 Agency World - News > General Warning – Piracy in the Gulf of Aden
"Owing to the increasing number and severity of Piracy attacks on vessels transiting the waters in the Gulf of Aden, the Coalition Forces (CTF 150) patrolling the area has released the following guidelines to vessels ..."
Goto: S5 Agency World - News > General Warning – Piracy in the Gulf of Aden

[Lodesman]

Finally made it to the news: BBC NEWS | Asia-Pacific | Somali pirates 'seize Thai ship'

Not sure if its name has been released, so let's just call it M/V "TS"

If you check out the IMB piracy map (Piracy attacks map) and zoom in on the mouth of the Gulf of Aden, you'll see that it happened in nearly the same place that Le Ponant was grabbed. You're looking for 2 red teardrops close together - one is 12 Aug general cargo ship hijack (M/V TS) and the other is 4 Apr Passenger ship hijack (Le Ponant).

With this one, the pirates got away, which just goes to show it's impossible to provide warship protection at all times in all places.

Kevin

[Lodesman]

According to IMB, there have been 4 more ships attacked in the past 2 days, all in the same general area in the middle of the mouth of the Gulf of Aden http://www.icc-ccs.org/main/all_piracy_al.php

[lenseman]

I think the answer to 'arming' yourself in that part of the world might be to use a LRAD!

http://science.howstuffworks.com/lrad.htm

http://www.defense-update.com/products/l/LRAD.htm