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Old 18-03-2016, 05:04   #181
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Re: Piracy In Gulf of Aden

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Originally Posted by Muckle Flugga View Post
It doesn't really just "sound" alarming. I can't really see how being fired on with AK47 and .50 rounds can be anything other than that. Had you or any of your fellows been hit it would have been utterly horrific. I am aware of some who have taken their children through there on a plastic leisure boat recently, which strikes me as entirely unreasonable, to say the least.

Wth these two separate incidents you reprot, thank you for your reminder that, despite what some may think, the passage through the Gulf of Aden and environs remains highly dangerous, and as the Saudi pilot noted to your captain, an active war zone.
Where did the pirate attack take place?
Cheers Dale.

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Old 19-03-2016, 01:43   #182
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Re: Piracy In Gulf of Aden

It was absolutely our mistake to approach Hanish al Kubra. Winds were 50 knots and we thought the disputed islands were behind us. The thing about these islands is that the shipping channel actually splits around it (not within gunshot distance though..)

With the pirates, we were the unlucky boat in a hundred. That's the risk that you weigh with this crossing, and 99 boats get through. Sounds like the Cape of Good Hope has worse odds! You decide on which risk works for you. The reward of the Gulf of Aden is the Red Sea. The reward of the Cape is the long-haul back north.

Talking with a guy who used to run a security company in the region, he said our brush with death was the rebels. With the pirates, we should have enforced a 300m barrier (warning shots, then at 200m 'clear the boat'). Lessons learned...
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Old 19-03-2016, 01:49   #183
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Re: Piracy In Gulf of Aden

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It was absolutely our mistake to approach Hanish al Kubra. Winds were 50 knots and we thought the disputed islands were behind us. The thing about these islands is that the shipping channel actually splits around it (not within gunshot distance though..)

With the pirates, we were the unlucky boat in a hundred. That's the risk that you weigh with this crossing, and 99 boats get through. Sounds like the Cape of Good Hope has worse odds! You decide on which risk works for you. The reward of the Gulf of Aden is the Red Sea. The reward of the Cape is the long-haul back north.

Talking with a guy who used to run a security company in the region, he said our brush with death was the rebels. With the pirates, we should have enforced a 300m barrier (warning shots, then at 200m 'clear the boat'). Lessons learned...
Hi WildWill, sorry for being persistent but can you give a more approx location? Was it in the international transit corridor ? Rough coordinates gives more context.
Cheers Dale .

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Old 19-03-2016, 03:42   #184
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Re: Piracy In Gulf of Aden

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It was absolutely our mistake to approach Hanish al Kubra. Winds were 50 knots and we thought the disputed islands were behind us. The thing about these islands is that the shipping channel actually splits around it (not within gunshot distance though..)

With the pirates, we were the unlucky boat in a hundred. That's the risk that you weigh with this crossing, and 99 boats get through. Sounds like the Cape of Good Hope has worse odds! You decide on which risk works for you. The reward of the Gulf of Aden is the Red Sea. The reward of the Cape is the long-haul back north.

Talking with a guy who used to run a security company in the region, he said our brush with death was the rebels. With the pirates, we should have enforced a 300m barrier (warning shots, then at 200m 'clear the boat'). Lessons learned...
Hi Will,

I think your stats for the Aden passage likely about right, but you were very lucky in your two encounters, not unlucky at all! Unlucky would have involved something far more salutary if not horrific and possibly terminal.

Of course, Al Mukalla has been held by Al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula for well over a year, now, along with a significant portion of the Hadramawt province, and several hundred miles of coastline. They are now established and comfortable enough there to advertise radical islamist preaching events on the internet:

https://news.siteintelgroup.com/Jiha...hadramawt.html


You say that your friend who used to run a security company in the region suggests firing "warning shots" at 300 meters and "clear the boat" (kill them all, I presume?) shots at 200meters… well, it seems to to me that the former may work, or may invite fire, and the latter involves some pretty extraordinarily excellent shooting skills and a fair degree of fortune, not to mention the fact that such as may be moving in boats from Al Mukalla to Somalia may have far superior weaponry, numbers, and warrior skills honed by several years to several decades fighting in Yemen and Somalia, if not Afghanistan. Sure you may ship an AR15 or two, as one poster on here did, but you would be inviting return fire from not only the same class, but belt fed LMGs, RPGs and similar, from people who are very likely to be quite comfortable shooting at you, under fire.

Those lessons may have ended up being learned in a much more severe fashion.

I am glad you made it.

With regard to South Africa, yes, there are risks, but they do not include ending up in a Liveleak video in an orange jumpsuit, or in a pool of blood watching your guts spill out over the deck, or talking lightly of "clearing the boat", which implies doing that to a bunch of other people, most likely whose home waters you have decided to cruise through.

The risks of the Cape passage are far more predictable and mitigatable, generally, and the rewards are, well, the whole of the Indian Ocean, including Maldives, Seychelles, Chagos, Reunion, Rodriguez, Mauritius, Madagascar, and Southern Africa, the Skeleton Coast of Namibia, St. Helena and Ascension, as well as the nautical achievement of having sailed round (at least) one of the Great Capes.

You are right that each is a risk. Leisure boat coasting 1500 miles athwart a horrific civil war isn't one I would either recommend or have a taste for, personally. The contrast alone is rather too stark for my stomach.
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Old 19-03-2016, 04:37   #185
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Re: Piracy In Gulf of Aden

Sorry Dale - 50nm from Al Mukalla on the edge of the Westbound shipping lane.

Muckle Fugga, I quote his words in 'clearing the boat'. The army tend to desensitize things to make it easier. But you suggest they have the right to be pirates because they live there! Sophie, the cat that posted earlier, had 3 armed guards, who 'could shoot a beer can at 300m', with I presume an AR15. I hear the AK 47 is only effective within 100m, so that is a distinct advantage. Remember also that we are in a stable yacht and they are in a buffeting skiff.
And for us to be of any value, they need us alive.

The Cape is a cool passage, but if you want to get to the Med, there is a better option ;-) Each to his own. Personally I love the Arabs and their culture, and came specifically because it was the Red Sea. And perhaps even the risk was part of the reward!
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Old 19-03-2016, 04:53   #186
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Re: Piracy In Gulf of Aden

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My apologies that you took my post as unhelpful. Unfortunately, If a person doubts themselves, then there is a reason for it. ... I do speak my mind and the truth. ...
Just to add another opinion: I read in books from Reinhold Messner that he had anxiety/fear (which probably is the same as doubts) at times and that he wouldn't be alive if these feeling wouldn't have made him prudent.

It boils down to what one makes of doubts. And I think it is often a good idea to ask others about their opinion.
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Old 19-03-2016, 05:00   #187
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Re: Piracy In Gulf of Aden

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Sorry Dale - 50nm from Al Mukalla on the edge of the Westbound shipping lane.

Muckle Fugga, I quote his words in 'clearing the boat'. The army tend to desensitize things to make it easier. But you suggest they have the right to be pirates because they live there! Sophie, the cat that posted earlier, had 3 armed guards, who 'could shoot a beer can at 300m', with I presume an AR15. I hear the AK 47 is only effective within 100m, so that is a distinct advantage. Remember also that we are in a stable yacht and they are in a buffeting skiff.
And for us to be of any value, they need us alive.

The Cape is a cool passage, but if you want to get to the Med, there is a better option ;-) Each to his own. Personally I love the Arabs and their culture, and came specifically because it was the Red Sea. And perhaps even the risk was part of the reward!
I am glad to hear you love the Arabs and their culture. It did come across in your writing to some extent and I appreciate that. I have lived in the region and share your appreciation, for some of it anyhow. I am not, however, a fan of religion in any form. As to war zones... And you have to ask yourself what the guys who were shooting at you were thinking, when they saw you cruising by in the (fantastically, inconceivably luxurious, by their standards) yacht, while they sit there wondering if they are going to survive the civil war that has killed numbers of their friends and family…

As to AK47s you are just wrong. They may be marginally less accurate than some more modern rifles at longer distances, but I assure you they will still kill you at a kilometer, and remain very accurate to well over 200 meters. I have personal experience of that. As to "shoot a beer can at 300m", it is rather a flip way to discuss killing a human, and maybe it is true, but it is likely macho BS, unless on a rifle stand, in prone, on the ground, with a scope and some time and calm. You should try it some time. I have. And "clearing a boat" from your "stable platform" of a moving boat while you contemplate shooting other human beings, and your own fate... you will rapidly find how hard it is in fact to do so at 200 meters. It isn't a shooting range in Nevada, y'know?

And… so you do mean killing everybody on board at 200 meters. Shooting at them at 300 meters, and killing them all at 200. So… how do you know they are pirates or whatever at 200 meters? Those waters do contain a lot of other people who may or may not be pirates or Al Qaeda or Al Shabaab, or fishermen. How exactly do you tell, for sure enough to KILL THEM ALL at 200 meters? How do you do that in the dark??? You seem to talk pretty lightly of just killing people in order to fulfil what, ultimately, is just a whim to be a tourist on a leisure boat in their region… which surprises me to say the least from someone who professes to "love" them. As to their "right" to be pirates? Do you have a "right" to be shooting at people you cannot identify, with the intention of killing them, at 200 meters? Does your "right" to satisfy the whim of cruising through their home waters in your luxury sailing craft trump their right to continue to live or be spared a violent death?

Further you discount the fact that many in that region are also equipped with belt fed LMGs as well as Dragunovs, which are very common in Middle Eastern and North African conflict zones, and indeed are one of the most effective and accurate stand off weapons ever manufactured.

There are not just "rebels" and "pirates" in those waters. There are both innocents, and people who are a hell of a lot worse than either of the foregoing.
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Old 19-03-2016, 05:31   #188
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pirate Re: Piracy In Gulf of Aden

As to more value alive than dead does not mean they're happy to die for the gain of others.. they're not suicide bombers.
They'll just strip the boat and crew of valuables and leave.. unless the boats of some use.. decoy at anchor..
Also.. beer cans sitting on a fence are Not veering and bouncing about at 15 odd kts.
Theory is a wonderful thing.. till it becomes reality.
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Old 01-05-2016, 07:35   #189
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Re: Piracy In Gulf of Aden

Dale,Box is full, cant PM
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Old 17-06-2016, 15:50   #190
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Re: Piracy In Gulf of Aden

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As to AK47s you are just wrong. They may be marginally less accurate than some more modern rifles at longer distances, but I assure you they will still kill you at a kilometer, and remain very accurate to well over 200 meters.
Pure Bullocks! The biggest joke is seeing an AK with a scope. They will kill you because of the 7.62 round, not because they are accurate. I own both AR and AK...the AK is a POS only good for scatter warfare.
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Old 17-06-2016, 15:53   #191
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Re: Piracy In Gulf of Aden

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Also.. beer cans sitting on a fence are Not veering and bouncing about at 15 odd kts.
Theory is a wonderful thing.. till it becomes reality.
I'm amazed at the number of armchair cruisers there are on this forum with opinions extracted directly from their aft quarter.
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Old 17-06-2016, 18:13   #192
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Re: Piracy In Gulf of Aden

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I'm amazed at the number of armchair cruisers there are on this forum with opinions extracted directly from their aft quarter.
I would say boatman has clock more miles by sea than than most people on this forum...but thank you for all the positive input.
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Old 17-06-2016, 18:51   #193
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Re: Piracy In Gulf of Aden

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I would say boatman has clock more miles by sea than than most people on this forum...but thank you for all the positive input.
Eeegads...delivery skipper. OPYC member.
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Old 17-06-2016, 18:59   #194
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Re: Piracy In Gulf of Aden

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I'm amazed at the number of armchair cruisers there are on this forum with opinions extracted directly from their aft quarter.
Well I have cruised with more than an arm chair and I've also tried shooting from the deck of a small boat.

I tried and I couldn't hit a beer can 10 meters from the boat in 4-6' seas. 200 meters away I only hit within 10 meters of a beer can about half the time.

Even hitting a skiff at 200-300 meters much less hitting anyone on it would be luck for just about anyone under any conditions but dead calm seas.
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Old 17-06-2016, 19:13   #195
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Re: Piracy In Gulf of Aden

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Eeegads...delivery skipper. OPYC member.
Delivery skipper who also did his bit in the military.
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