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Old 19-03-2016, 09:15   #1066
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Re: Oyster Problems?

Buy the looks of this video received in my emails today, it doesn't appear that the keel failure has slowed down production or caused much concern for buyers of the larger Oysters.
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Old 02-05-2016, 09:21   #1067
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Re: Oyster Problems?

I finish reading the report on Yachting Monthly, the main British yacht magazine, many months after other reports have been published by Russian and German magazines and i am puzzled:

After a long reading it seems that all is normal from putting tons of lead on the bow to balance the boat, to the keel grid design to the manufacture process, that it seems went just a bit wrong, nothing that seems to be of great concern. They say that they agree with Oyster evaluation on all accident.

The only thing that increased my confidence on the all article was their saying that Humphreys had nothing to do with the boat design structure and I assume, neither with the alteration on that boat (lead on the bow).

The structure design was all done by Oyster engineering team.

I know that Oyster is a British brand but the article is just unbelievable specially after the magazine having made on a recent past a big fuss and several articles regarding boats losing keels.

Very burried inside all the nice words and treated like if it was of no big consequence lays the main factor for the disaster: the Keel structure was not a single piece but two separated structures glassed together. Pretty incredible in what regards structure design and off course, it was those links that failed.

I had said already and I say it again, that type of structure with a stub makes no sense and it was the links from the stub part of the structure to the main structure that failed.

So, why didn't they made a single solid structure and bolt the keel to it, instead of making a main structure and another stub structure, with glassed links that will make it more fragile?

I can only see a reason and a very sad one: because conservative sailors still think that a stub is a more solid way to support a keel and Oyster wanted to maintain the sales argument, even if in what concerns a boat with a keel structure and a bolted keel that does not make any sense.
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Old 02-05-2016, 09:31   #1068
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Re: Oyster Problems?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Polux View Post
I finish reading the report on Yachting Monthly, the main British yacht magazine, many months after other reports have been published by Russian and German magazines and i am puzzled:

After a long reading it seems that all is normal from putting tons of lead on the bow to balance the boat, to the keel grid design to the manufacture process, that it seems went just a bit wrong, nothing that seems to be of great concern. They say that they agree with Oyster evaluation on all accident.

The only thing that increased my confidence on the all article was their saying that Humphreys had nothing to do with the boat design structure and I assume, neither with the alteration on that boat (lead on the bow).

The structure design was all done by Oyster engineering team.

I know that Oyster is a British brand but the article is just unbelievable specially after the magazine having made on a recent past a big fuss and several articles regarding boats losing keels.

Very burried inside all the nice words and treated like if it was of no big consequence lays the main factor for the disaster: the Keel structure was not a single piece but two separated structures glassed together. Pretty incredible in what regards structure design and off course, it was those links that failed.

I had said already and I say it again, that type of structure with a stub makes no sense and it was the links from the stub part of the structure to the main structure that failed.

So, why didn't they made a single solid structure and bolt the keel to it, instead of making a main structure and another stub structure, with glassed links that will make it more fragile?

I can only see a reason and a very sad one: because conservative sailors still think that a stub is a more solid way to support a keel and Oyster wanted to maintain the sales argument, even if in what concerns a boat with a keel structure and a bolted keel that does not make any sense.
Stubs are a great way to finish a keel hull conection , but as always someone found a decent way to screw the OEM design , don't blame the stub because stubs are used for many years with no problems so far , mine is enough solid to live without even partial members or stringers , beams, etc.. they absorb a great deal of strees and loads without rupture a hull ,not like those flat fin keels bolted to a flat hull contour, stubs even make a great and proper bilge sump, can help the draft without weight penalty and they are there since the invention of the wheel, is not about the stub is about using the right materials and with the right amount...
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Old 02-05-2016, 09:52   #1069
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Re: Oyster Problems?

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Originally Posted by neilpride View Post
Stubs are a great way to finish a keel hull conection , but as always someone found a decent way to screw the OEM design , don't blame the stub because stubs are used for many years with no problems so far , mine is enough solid to live without even partial members or stringers , beams, etc.. they absorb a great deal of strees and loads without rupture a hull ,not like those flat fin keels bolted to a flat hull contour, stubs even make a great and proper bilge sump, can help the draft without weight penalty and they are there since the invention of the wheel, is not about the stub is about using the right materials and with the right amount...
I guess you did not understood. Stubs can be great but not if you use a modern keel structure. They are adequate if they are used in connection with a thick hull laminate and an encapsulated stub.

On Oyster the stub was encapsulated but by a very thin skin and all the efforts were taken by the structure. Oyster had no experience on this type of keel structures, that are widely used on the industry by many yachts (maxi yachts too)

Read the article before you comment: That was the first attempt from Oyster regarding a modern keel structure and they failed. What failed was the connections from the main keel structure to the secondary keel structure (the stub). There was no need of a secondary keel structure and no need of fragile connections between the two.

The keel, like it is done by most builders, should be bolted to a single main solid structure by adequate sized bolts without fragile/problematic connections between two separated keel structures, unless it is done the old way.
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Old 02-05-2016, 10:15   #1070
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Re: Oyster Problems?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Polux View Post
I guess you did not understood. Stubs can be great but not if you use a modern kell structure. They are adequate if they are used in connection with a thick hull laminate and an encapsulated stub.

On Oyster the stub was encapsulated but by a very thin skin and all the efforts were taken by the structure. attempt by Oyster to this type of keels, that is widely used on the industry by many yachts (maxi yachts too)

Read the article before you comment: That was the first attempt from Oyster regarding a modern keel structure and they failed. what failed was the connections from the main keel structure to the secondary keel structure (the stub). There was no need of a secondary keel structure and no need of fragile connections between the two.

The kell, like it is done by most builders, should be bolted to a single main solid structure by adequate sized bolts without fragile connections between two separated keel structures.

I'm not going to bite your hook this time, sorry Paolo,
I found your post hard if not imposible to read and understand, modern keel structure like you say?? where ? In the Oyster? that's a old way to make a keel joint, you know that? sure you are not going to fit a stub in those hig tech boats since they want sleek and fast hulls where a stub have no place, in other words they rely in hig tech keel structures, and very often they make cheats in that area to save cost .

I don't understand when you say encapsulated stubs LoL, they are just simple stubs with the inner beams and grids, nothing fancy , a reliable and trusted way to built a boat when they know what to do and when they are looking at safety margins, obviously Oyster make such a mistake in this case that is very difficult to understand why, because cost is not a issue here when those boats cost a fortune, in my mind come unqualified crews and Oyster in house design department fault mixed with a faulty Quality control of the final product..

You seems a fanatic of magazine articles and such kind of BS around the net but what I found funny to the extreme is when you mention the first attempt from Oyster to built a modern keel structure , well I can tell you the only thing hig tech stuff in that keel is the Vacuum infusion used in the layup and the pesky way attempt to glue the inner grids, the rest is old school mate.. and I do not extend more on this issue, a stub its a single main solid structure to bolt a keel, that's it, the only diference its Oyster make a mess with a solid and reliable idea, nothing more nothing else..
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Old 02-05-2016, 12:19   #1071
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Re: Oyster Problems?

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Originally Posted by neilpride View Post

I'm not going to bite your hook this time, sorry Paolo,
I found your post hard if not imposible to read and understand, modern keel structure like you say?? where ? In the Oyster? that's a old way to make a keel joint, you know that? .....
As I said yachting world agreed point to point with Oyster conclusions and also in what regards keel structure. It is Oyster that describes how the (two) structures were made and glassed together and what failed (the links). They say also that it was the first time they used that type of (modern) keel structure, the one that is used on many contemporary yachts (without stub).

If the article as any insight is to heard from Oyster in a clear way what had happened (according to them).

Oyster is maintained the stubs on the new boats but get back to the old way of making the keel structure, the one that is appropriated to have a stub, the old way, not a modern keel structure, one that implies an heavier boat for the same structural resistance.

Look at the article, they have drawings of the keel structure on that boat and also the ones that they are making now on new 885, a traditional stub one.
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Old 02-05-2016, 21:11   #1072
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Re: Oyster Problems?

In a case like this, does the product liability insurance held by Oyster pay for another boat, or does the owners' insurance company pay? Or, is the guy screwed?
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Old 03-05-2016, 10:28   #1073
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Re: Oyster Problems?

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In a case like this, does the product liability insurance held by Oyster pay for another boat, or does the owners' insurance company pay? Or, is the guy screwed?
Oyster is assuming it was a building defect on the links (glassed) of the main keel structure to the stub substructure. The design of the structure is nor from Humphreys (the NA) but from Oyster engineering team and they keep saying that if it was well done the structure would be solid.

So it is entirely Oyster fault and I doubt very much the insurance of the boat owner will pay for a loss due to boat building defect. Maybe Oyster's insurance pays a part and Oyster other part. I believe the owner would only be screwed if Oyster bankrupted and that does not seem the case. He would easily won a judicial action against Oyster so I believe it is to Oyster interest to settle things straight with him, one way or another.
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