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Old 17-12-2015, 11:49   #661
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Re: Oyster Problems?

Originally Posted by minaret
Stupid-or disingenuous?


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A former member of this community, doing mischief.
And mischief purely for the sake of mischief it seems, and attention-getting obviously. Can't imagine this & countless other informative & interesting discussions would ever have gotten this far if he was still here. To say nothing of all the add'l work for the mods dealing with the personal attacks. Probably why the Oyster & other build-related threads haven't really gone anywhere lately over on SN, despite a lot of very smart people who likely just choose not to participate & endure the nonsense.
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Old 17-12-2015, 11:54   #662
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Re: Oyster Problems?

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Originally Posted by neilpride View Post
...

Because if Bavaria turn back to bulkheads tabed with FG by hand and the grid glassed in the flanges and a whole diferent way to made things than in the past its because they see the wolf ears, so why? if they market the benefits of plexus glue liners and
bulkheads glued to liner slots in the past? the only logical approach is turn back to clasic and tested methods..
Turn back to what? For what I understand there was not any change on Bavaria building methods. Here you have a 10 year old paper that says that the boat grid is glassed. For bulkheads they use tabbing and bonding agents.
http://www.bostonsailingcenter.com/f...riaFactory.pdf

The Oyster accident had nothing with the way the grid was fixed to the hull.
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Old 17-12-2015, 12:13   #663
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Re: Oyster Problems?

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Turn back to what? For what I understand there was not any change on Bavaria building methods. Here you have a 10 year old paper that says that the boat grid is glassed. For bulkheads they use tabbing and bonding agents.
http://www.bostonsailingcenter.com/f...riaFactory.pdf

The Oyster accident had nothing with the way the grid was fixed to the hull.
No they are not, and I fix few bavarias to know that, they use modular construction in the past, those huge IG units dropped in the grid , bulkheads fitted in slots with glue, its now when they FG the units ,,, don't get my wrong, try to see the differences between the old tour factory vid and the new one,,, they build very similar as Beneteau build this days ...
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Old 17-12-2015, 12:20   #664
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Re: Oyster Problems?

I'm quoting you on this....


Regarding the way Bavarias are built, I would say pretty well and they increased recently the solidity of their boats, making them heavier, a bit the contrary of most other brands.


What do you mean exactly with the term solidity and heavier?? in the new
Bavarias...


What kind of changes made to make the boats more solid and heavy?
Thanks.
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Old 17-12-2015, 12:25   #665
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Re: Oyster Problems?

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Originally Posted by neilpride View Post
No they are not, and I fix few bavarias to know that, they use modular construction in the past, those huge IG units dropped in the grid , bulkheads fitted in slots with glue, its now when they FG the units ,,, don't get my wrong, try to see the differences between the old tour factory vid and the new one,,, they build very similar as Beneteau build this days ...
I will not continue this but is common knowledge that Beneteau and Jeanneau don't build boats the same way as Bavaria. I am not saying that one is a better way than other, but the hulls are very different in built materials and techniques and the integral matrix Beneteau uses as structure is very different from the grid Bavaria uses. Bavaria uses also a lot more tabbing than Beneteau.

Regarding the last post sorry but this thread is not about Bavarias and I am not interested in increasing the thread drift, however on one of the links I posted they (Bavaria) talks about that and the Bavaria 46 was elected last year Family cruiser of the year by testers of all main European magazines and one of the reasons is that the boat is built more solidly than before and more solidly than the competition. The other was the boat sailing very well.

Read the tests on the several magazines, they talk about that with more detail.
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Old 17-12-2015, 12:28   #666
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Re: Oyster Problems?

Clear as mud, the question remain...


What do you mean exactly with the term solidity and heavier?? in the new
Bavarias...


What kind of changes made to make the boats more solid and heavy?
Thanks.
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Old 17-12-2015, 12:52   #667
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Re: Oyster Problems?

minaret & neilpride if you are trying to educate polux ..... you have a long row to hoe.
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Old 17-12-2015, 13:18   #668
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Re: Oyster Problems?

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Originally Posted by boatpoker View Post
minaret & neilpride if you are trying to educate polux ..... you have a long row to hoe.
And then there's people like me who's brain still has quite a bit of "vacancy" when it comes to a lot of this more techy stuff. But given the diversity of opinions, maybe that's better?
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Old 17-12-2015, 13:22   #669
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Re: Oyster Problems?

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Originally Posted by boatpoker View Post
minaret & neilpride if you are trying to educate polux ..... you have a long row to hoe.
Like for instance regarding Bavarias build to be very similar to Beneteau these days, like says Neil?

This thread is about Oysters with problems, not about Bavarias or Beneteaus. Long way out of topic. I will not contribute more to that.
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Old 17-12-2015, 13:28   #670
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Re: Oyster Problems?

But but , I don't think its a real thread drift, if you see the root of the point, a big boat loosing part of the hull , some way you reach the other point, the actual weakness in some brands...
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Old 17-12-2015, 13:46   #671
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Re: Oyster Problems?

Please accept my apologies if I have any of the following wrong. Someone with a more intimate knowledge of Oyster's history may be able to offer correction and clarification.

But I believe we're really discussing more than one company named "Oyster". I know of three:

1. The Oyster founded and run by Richard Matthews for over 30 years during which time the company built a sterling reputation for tough offshore boats.

2. The Oyster bought for 70 million by Balmoral Capital in early 2008 in a great bit of timing by Matthews.

3. The Oyster bought on firesale for 15 million by Dutch HTP Investments in Feb 2012

Along the way the Wroxham yard (Windboats) that built 250 Oysters was apparently dumped by the new owners. They now build boats for Mathew's new company, Gunfleet. The biggest Oysters are now built at a new yard in Turkey 1000 miles from most of the people who know how an Oyster is built. And although Matthew's Oyster used only hand layup, the Turkish operation is using infusion on a scale rarely attempted. This press release details a single infusion of over 6 tons of resin

Oyster 125 sets new world record | News | Oyster Yachts


And some seem surprised there may be a quality problem in recently built Oysters?
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Old 17-12-2015, 14:08   #672
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Re: Oyster Problems?

I think the thread drift is warranted as it appears all production builders are building to the minimum engineered scantlings. Production boats are no longer built by boatbuilders. They are built by bean counters who say that you get 3 sq. yards of glass and 2.5lbs. of resin to do that specific job. If you need 2.6lbs. .... too bad.
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Old 17-12-2015, 14:18   #673
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Re: Oyster Problems?

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Originally Posted by boatpoker View Post
I think the thread drift is warranted as it appears all production builders are building to the minimum engineered scantlings. Production boats are no longer built by boatbuilders. They are built by bean counters who say that you get 3 sq. yards of glass and 2.5lbs. of resin to do that specific job. If you need 2.6lbs. .... too bad.
Clearly there is thread drift here and some of it is interesting as you note. If this is truly and industry wide trend it is truly troubling. I wonder if there are any builders (there must be) of "production boats" who haven't gone the way of cheap to make more profit.

And if this is really an industry wide trend... when did these practices first surface? Of course the impression is that all yachts are "hand made" with the sort of attention to quality associated with anything hand made. This appears to be more myth than reality.
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Old 17-12-2015, 14:21   #674
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Re: Oyster Problems?

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Originally Posted by Sandero View Post
Clearly there is thread drift here and some of it is interesting as you note. If this is truly and industry wide trend it is truly troubling. I wonder if there are any builders (there must be) of "production boats" who haven't gone the way of cheap to make more profit.

And if this is really an industry wide trend... when did these practices first surface? Of course the impression is that all yachts are "hand made" with the sort of attention to quality associated with anything hand made. This appears to be more myth than reality.
I believe this has been a slow progression since the late 80's and has corresponded with the several large economic downturns since then. I also think the myth has been created by the buyers who refuse to acknowledge (understandably) that they have bought a piece of crap in the first place.
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Old 17-12-2015, 14:28   #675
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Re: Oyster Problems?

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Originally Posted by boatpoker View Post
I think the thread drift is warranted as it appears all production builders are building to the minimum engineered scantlings. Production boats are no longer built by boatbuilders. They are built by bean counters who say that you get 3 sq. yards of glass and 2.5lbs. of resin to do that specific job. If you need 2.6lbs. .... too bad.
He he. To be more precise, Beneteau headquarters know exactly to the last second how long take to finish a part or a hull, if there is a increment of time in the production line , a alarm sound loud in the offices...
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