Oyster Problems?

[Polux]

Originally Posted by Muckle Flugga

Well I wholly disagree with your frankly bizarre suggestion that only boats above 80 feet have been designed expressly for unrestricted ocean service. That assertion is so flat out wrong it is hard to know whether you are even serious in making it!!??

As to the assertion you make here that "bigger is always safer", I am also surprised you make it, as it simply isn't true. ..

I have no patient for this type or argumentation. Do you really think that any small sailboat is designed to face the big storms on the North Atlantic in winter or Cyclones?

I did not said that bigger is always safer, said that bigger, if significantly bigger, being both boats well designed, as modern production boats are, the bigger boat will have more stability and will be needed a bigger breaking wave to capsize it and it does not happens only with sailboats: That's why ships are more safe then small boats in bad weather.

I pointed also that I was talking about stability and that it cannot serve much to a small boat to be very strong if it is capsized easily, as any small boat is by a breaking wave of the right size. A capsize leads normally to a mast loss, it is very dangerous for the people inside the boat and can have unforeseen results.

I said also that all boats are not equal in what regards a strong built and that is important too.

[Polux]

Originally Posted by neilpride

This is the process involved so far so good, drop the keel, drop the mast, grind to bare fiberglass a wide area in the bottom section, grind the cracks until reach solid healty laminate, when you have a thin hull sometimes you reach the interior Lol, remove the interior furniture around the keel adjacent areas , that mean floor boards, salon table, mast step or mast compression tube, piping, wiring, etc.. grind the wole grid around the keel section to bare fiberglass, flanges , bays.....etc... grind the cracks open ,
reinforce and laminate the whole mess, glass the flanges to the bays, glass the grid to the hull even if the beams reach the waterline, chainplates etc.. reglass the bay panels.... this is so far the process , if the boat is made in Poly and gelcoat we use the same OEM materials...


Now the exterior , reglass the grinded areas to fill the grinded material, faired, and regelcoat et...
Redrill the keel bolt holes.


Now the keel, inspect the keel bolts , clean the whole top of the keel, if keel bolts are bad, replace it, bend it, corroded etc... clean really well the 2 surfaces, keel and hull , stub area. Reinstall the keel in place, Travelift operator tense , lots of patience,
lots of $$$$$ in 5200...retight the keel bolts to OEM especifications , clean the whole interior, reinstall wiring, piping, furniture.
Step the mast, again $$$$....


It could be a 10000$ bill easy, depend of the size and materials, and this is good until your next 6 knts grounding... If you have plenty of cash to do it again....
And this is the keel repair Bible for all of this Jeaneaus, Beneteaus, or whatever crap floating with a 6 ft fin keel attached to a thin hull with a hollow grid liner... no stubs involved....

For what I had understood on the Oyster 825 the work, in what regards taking the boat apart, for reaching the keel bolts to tight them (or inspect them) is not short of that for what the skipper of Polina said.

I have a friend surveyor that commented with me the same problem in what regards Halberg Rassy (that uses the same type of keel).

[neilpride]

I don't mention Polina star in my post, not even a halberg rassy, and no stubs at all.

[Polux]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

Yes, but I have to say -- the keel looks firmly attached, and the rudder broke off in a way which appears to have left the shaft intact in the hull. The hull itself seems to have held up pretty well.

Probably still totaled if it was full of water, but I would say that structure has performed very well indeed.

If it was full of water the waves would not be able to throw it to a plateau and would have smashed it to pieces below.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Polux

If it was full of water the waves would not be able to throw it to a plateau and would have smashed it to pieces below.

Obviously a very well built boat

Maybe Oyster could hire the designer as a consultant

[Exile]

Originally Posted by Muckle Flugga

even to the point of claiming that the steel example I had used had gone aground on "soft rocks"!

I remember that one.

[neilpride]

Soft rocks, that's a good one!!!

[Exile]

Originally Posted by neilpride

It could be a 10000$ bill easy, depend of the size and materials, and this is good until your next 6 knts grounding... If you have plenty of cash to do it again....
And this is the keel repair Bible for all of this Jeaneaus, Beneteaus, or whatever crap floating with a 6 ft fin keel attached to a thin hull with a hollow grid liner... no stubs involved....

That estimate sounds rather low based on all the labor you're describing. At least based on some of the yard work I've had done here in the US.

[neilpride]

Originally Posted by Exile

That estimate sounds rather low based on all the labor you're describing. At least based on some of the yard work I've had done here in the US.

Yep, it could be easy 10000$ upward, depend of many factors, damage extent, materials involved, size, etc...

[JPA Cate]

Originally Posted by neilpride

Yep, it could be easy 10000$ upward, depend of many factors, damage extent, materials involved, size, etc...

Hey, neilpride!

Yeah, as I was reading the itemized list needed for the repairs referenced in your post, I was thinking $20,000 ... and up. Perhaps you are undervaluing your labour.

Anyhow, cheers,

Ann

[neilpride]

Originally Posted by Ann T. Cate

Hey, neilpride!

Yeah, as I was reading the itemized list needed for the repairs referenced in your post, I was thinking $20,000 ... and up. Perhaps you are undervaluing your labour.

Anyhow, cheers,

Ann

Hehehe, Cheers!! I don't undervaluing my job, i mean i don't know where they charge 20000 $ bill for keel hull repair, sure 20000$ sounds right in the right place , even 30000$... if you need a new keel,, but here we charge according the place and prices around , those 10000$ are a estimate up or down so far for a 38 ft to 40ft,,,, can be 13000 , 15000 or who know,, but trust me , is not cheap by any mean .....

[Exile]

Originally Posted by jmaja

Sorry I don't understand what's wrong with having an insurance. 90+% of the boat repairs are covered by insurance around here and everyone having a boat with some value has an insurance that covers groundings even if the cause was a stupid mistake by the owner.

Over here in the US the recreational marine insurance industry is unregulated, so YMMV. But of the 3 separate policies I've had (from 3 separate carriers) in the past 8 years, they all distinguish b'twn. "mfg. defects," "latent defects," and routine "wear & tear." They all cover mfg. or latent defects but not always both (don't ask me how they make that distinction in many cases), but always exclude routine wear & tear. So maybe damages from a one-time hit on an uncharted rock, for example, may entitle you to a claim. But I would imagine the type of more routine groundings that befell CR over a long period of time (as far as anyone knows, that is) would more likely qualify as wear & tear and therefore be exempt from coverage. Even if coverage was available, and given the age & value of some of these boats, it may be cheaper for the insurance co. to pay the boat's value vs. paying for the repairs.

Of course you could always try and prove what the boat pros here seem to be suggesting, i.e. that the design & construction of the keels on some of these boats is inherently defective, with defects that may also be latent. Could be correct but tough to prove legally. But maybe if a surveyor agreed?

[TeddyDiver]

Originally Posted by Polux

I have no patient for this type or argumentation. Do you really think that any small sailboat is designed to face the big storms on the North Atlantic in winter or Cyclones?

But you have patience to claim every Benevaria being equally seaworthy as any other sailboat
And there are "small" sailboats designed to face storms too.
Have you ever heard the term "selfrightening" or AVS>160deg, handholds, small portholes with storm shutters... etc

BR Teddy

[TeddyDiver]

Originally Posted by jmaja

Sorry I don't understand what's wrong with having an insurance. 90+% of the boat repairs are covered by insurance around here and everyone having a boat with some value has an insurance that covers groundings even if the cause was a stupid mistake by the owner.

I'm from here and never had any insurance but I try to avoid stupid mistakes, but if I make one I pay the bill myself.. or do the repairs DIY which is more likely

[neilpride]

Originally Posted by TeddyDiver

But you have patience to claim every Benevaria being equally seaworthy as any other sailboat
And there are "small" sailboats designed to face storms too.
Have you ever heard the term "selfrightening" or AVS>160deg, handholds, small portholes with storm shutters... etc

BR Teddy

Probably never hear about the Contessa 32.