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Old 27-12-2010, 19:43   #166
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[FONT=Comic Sans MS]Mark... you could go all the way and replace with Galvanised wire... its flexible, so you can make up eyes for the bottle screws using u-clamps.. its much much stronger and lasts a hell of a lot longer...
G'Day Boatman,

Ya know, I keep seeing this statement about how much stronger galvo wire is than stainless. Seemed odd to me, so I actually looked up some data. Not definitive, 'cause I stopped after getting one set of numbers, but here goes:

From Lexco (a major producer of galvanized wire rope):
1/4" diam 6x19 galvanized wire rope -- breaking strength=6300 lbs

From a table with no manufacturer specified:
1/4" diam 6x19 galvanized wire rope -- breaking strength= 6800 lbs

from the West Marine catalog
1/4" 1x19 304 s/s wire -- breaking strength= 8200 lbs
1/4" 1x19 316 s/s wire -- breaking strength= 6900 lbs

I chose these types of wire because you specified using galvo wire that was flexible enough to make eyes in the ends, and I believe that this indicates use of something like 6x19 construction, and of course the s/s wire it would replace is most likely 1x19 construction.

Not having any personal knowledge, I won't argue about relative fatigue resistance or corrosion resistance, but I think that the figures do show that galvo is not in fact any stronger than s/s, let alone "much much stronger"

And none of this addresses the issue of stretch, which in a rig like Mark's Bennie supports is quite important. Here I think that 1x19 s/s is far superior to any "flexible" construction galvo wire.

Cheers,

Jim
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Old 27-12-2010, 20:08   #167
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G'day Jim...
Actually I think you'll find the tensile strengths are pretty much the same... the true strength however of galvanised is its ability to take flex unlike stainless steel which is brittle... hence failure of rigs at masthead etc like MarkJ.
In the RN just about all the wire rope we used was galvanised and I grew to respect its strength and flexibilty.. also appreciated the way it sings under extreme load before parting... giving one time to slacken off or get outa the bludi way before it went with a bang and neatly sliced off a body part...
As for stretch.. hell as a rigger in the old days we factored it in... also its a lot easier to splice than stainless.. which is damn near impossible and weakens it dramatically. Also Galv is a lot cheaper...
But.... horses for courses... thats what makes life varied and interesting...
Aircraft cable available in galvanized, stainless, and stainless Type 316 steel
Not the best example... but all I'm getting with a quick search is Made in China... will search at leisure for better
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Old 27-12-2010, 20:25   #168
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Fear not boatman, you aren't going silly just yet ! Go back to post 166 and read slowly. Notice the error ?

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Old 27-12-2010, 20:32   #169
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G'day Jim...
Actually I think you'll find the tensile strengths are pretty much the same... the true strength however of galvanised is its ability to take flex unlike stainless steel which is brittle... hence failure of rigs at masthead etc like MarkJ.
In the RN just about all the wire rope we used was galvanised and I grew to respect its strength and flexibilty.. also appreciated the way it sings under extreme load before parting... giving one time to slacken off or get outa the bludi way before it went with a bang and neatly sliced off a body part...
As for stretch.. hell as a rigger in the old days we factored it in... also its a lot easier to splice than stainless.. which is damn near impossible and weakens it dramatically.
But.... horses for courses... thats what makes life varied and interesting...
Aircraft cable available in galvanized, stainless, and stainless Type 316 steel
Ok, Boatman,

Yep, the tensile strengths are indeed similar... that was my point!

Now, as to the ability to flex -- Seems to me that if you compare similar construction, there isn't so much difference. The 6x19 galvo wire is indeed able to flex without great fatigue, and 1x19 s/s wire can't. But, this is not a direct comparison. If you compare the 6x19 galvo with typical 7x19 s/s wire as is used in halyards, the ability to survive flexing is similar. I've had such s/s halyards last more than a decade with frequent flexing through 180 degrees. But, that doesn't really apply to standing rigging, especially forestays. Here the ugly spectre of stretch really starts to make a difference. Having a saggy forestay not only spoils sail shape, but is very detrimental to furler performance. Having excess stretch here isn't something that you can "factor in". Nor is it a good thing in shrouds when applied to a tall, slender deck stepped spar like Mark's.

I'm not saying that there are not applications where the galvo rigging is quite acceptable, but I don't think that it is good advice for Mark.

Mark himself may have a view about this... it is his boat!!

Anyhow, not trying to start a bun fight here, Boatman, but I thought the numbers ought to have some exposure.

Cheers,

Jim

PS Never heard about the "singing before failing" before... what causes that to happen?
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Old 27-12-2010, 21:04   #170
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Jim... no bun fight intended... but the point I was trying to make was the weakness of s/s lies at the swaged ends where it suddenly has to go rigid... yes in most cases it will last 10yrs or more... no arguement there.
My comments related to the ease of diy using mechanical fastenings that just need a spanner as opposed to a swage machine (something I have considered carrying on my boat as an earner).... and a hell of a lot cheaper than Norseman... as to the stretch.. you make it sound like elastic and it stretches back and forth... I have'nt seen the loads imposed on a forestay having that much effect except over time... then you tighten your galvanised bottle screws.
When you can tighten no further after a few years you cut the eye behind the clamp and make a new one, wind your screws back out again and your good to go.
Over time the cost savings are pretty good especially as the rigging will last 25yrs or more... as to messy.... nowadays you can get it coated... just need to take the coating of at the eye...
And I'll tell you now... MarkJ would not touch it with a barge pole.... I just said it to get him of on one....
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Old 27-12-2010, 22:28   #171
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Just found the thread. Congratulations, Mark I haven't had to do the 28minute sleep routine yet, since my roughly 7,000 singlehanding miles thus far have been in the relatively empty, open Pacific.

Much respect for working it out and making it through some major hurdles along the way, man. To me, that's always the hardest part. Being short-sleeped and having to deal with a big problem (like, oh, a popped forestay) in a productive manner without 'hanging the queen' as they might say in chess is...challenging.

As to the stimulating convo regarding SS or galvanized wire, that's actually quite a bit more interesting than I'd anticipated it being.
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Old 27-12-2010, 23:48   #172
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Jim... no bun fight intended... but the point I was trying to make was the weakness of s/s lies at the swaged ends where it suddenly has to go rigid... yes in most cases it will last 10yrs or more... no arguement there.
My comments related to the ease of diy using mechanical fastenings that just need a spanner as opposed to a swage machine (something I have considered carrying on my boat as an earner).... and a hell of a lot cheaper than Norseman... as to the stretch.. you make it sound like elastic and it stretches back and forth... I have'nt seen the loads imposed on a forestay having that much effect except over time... then you tighten your galvanised bottle screws.
When you can tighten no further after a few years you cut the eye behind the clamp and make a new one, wind your screws back out again and your good to go.
Over time the cost savings are pretty good especially as the rigging will last 25yrs or more... as to messy.... nowadays you can get it coated... just need to take the coating of at the eye...
And I'll tell you now... MarkJ would not touch it with a barge pole.... I just said it to get him of on one....
Hi Boatman,
What kind of coating is it? Just something to stop the gal finish marking the sails, or do they 'silver it up' to match the aesthetic appeal of SS?

I'm thinking red port and green starboard would be good for sailing rookies... and then swap them on April 1st
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Old 27-12-2010, 23:54   #173
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Congratulations to you on doing something most of us will have to enjoy vicariously through someone like your self. I have enjoyed reading all of your posts and the ups and downs of life as well as the voyage.

If you should find yourself in Austin, Texas, you have a place to stay and all you can drink. Hats off to you.
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Old 28-12-2010, 03:59   #174
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Virtual.... hahahahaha Red and Green... that would be funny...
As to the coatings... I assume its to stop the marking and reduce the need for maintainance.... reduce the seepage from the oiled core... its new to me as well as I've not played with it for a few years....
Seems you can get red... green not sure this is just a quick sample copy paste...
Sure drives up the price tho'....
Think I'd stay traditional.....

4-6mm PVC Coated Galvanised Wire Rope 7x7 RED

£0.89

4mm Diameter Wire Rope. Overall 6mm Diameter with coating (Approx).
1770 Grade Galvanised Wire Rope with a 7x7 construction. Minimum Breaking Load 1120kgs
Red PVC protective coating. (Different colours available, check with sales team if you want a specific colour)
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Old 28-12-2010, 18:52   #175
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Have cruisers become soft? less ruggedly independent than before?
Thoughts?
Sounds like a good new thread..........
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Old 28-12-2010, 21:39   #176
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Congratulations Mark. You've done something few others have!

Looks like your stories will have you dining out for years!
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Old 28-12-2010, 23:27   #177
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So Mark what is the plan now?

Since you have already soloed from Europe, it almost seems a waste if you don't complete the journey and make it a full solo circumnavigation

Maybe you can try to beat Laura in her pesky Jeanneau
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Old 29-12-2010, 16:11   #178
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Hello Mark, Congratulations on this big achievement! I am glad now you did not invite on the last leg when we met in Las Palmas. It was a very long trip for just about everyone except Wind Horse. Going solo was the right way to go for the last leg. Now you will want to try it solo nonstop just to spice it up. Have fun and I hope to catch up with you somewhere on the seven seas.
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Old 30-12-2010, 15:38   #179
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arrrrgh!

Belated congratulations (I've been down in Baja for the holidays, avoiding the internet) to Boatman61 for the best guess. And to Markj, of course, for coming in one day too early, as far as my own guess was concerned. Gotta tell ya, Markj, I just read this entire thread, and still can't figure what the rush was all about.

If you decide on a second lap, my advice would be to slow down next time. If you'd waited to come in when I predicted you would come in, you probably wouldn't have worn out that forestay.
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Old 30-12-2010, 16:36   #180
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Belated congratulations (I've been down in Baja for the holidays, avoiding the internet) to Boatman61 for the best guess.
Best Guess... BEST GUESS...... I'll have you know a few litres of quality red wine went into the calculation of Stream rate... prevelant winds... sleep needs... broken gear etc...:
And I still can't believe that when I closed my eyes and threw the dart I actually hit the page....
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