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Old 27-12-2010, 07:21   #151
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Nice Going Mark on the safe passage, Spending 30 days alone is a great way to get to know ones self!
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Old 27-12-2010, 08:17   #152
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Man alive Mark! I have been off the forum for holidays and just read this for the first time! Congratulations!
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Old 27-12-2010, 09:55   #153
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.... Riggers were yachties employed by rigger firm. Paying for expertize? Definitely not in this case.
Clyde
There are always exceptions. There are rogue plumbers, bad car mechanics, insurance agents who mis-represent their products and so forth. Generalisations always have exceptions.


But in general you have to pay for expertise.
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Old 27-12-2010, 14:57   #154
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There are always exceptions. There are rogue plumbers, bad car mechanics, insurance agents who mis-represent their products and so forth. Generalisations always have exceptions.


But in general you have to pay for expertise.
Well, yes and no.
I don't think anyone is disputing the fact that you pay for experience and knowledge, as well as labour and overheads and profit, if you use any commercial operation to do work for you in any field.

I didn't get the impression that Springbok was saying, riggers in this case, weren't entitled to all the above. They're entitled to whatever people will pay.

His point was that you don't HAVE to pay for all that if you want to do it yourself, and have acces to the parts and the time.
Many cruisers do in fact do as much as they can themselves. It's part of the lifestyle for many.
Because cruisers choose to do their own varnishing, service their own engines, stitch their own biminis, sails etc is not saying that people who do it commecially aren't entitled to be paid for their expertise, but just that you can DIY it.

Also, his personal experience of being severely jerked around by a commercial operation was just that. Not a statement that there aren't many good, commercial operations, just that using a commercial operation is no guarantee of getting a job done well.

About 30-40 years ago many people were getting stuck into building their own boats using Bruce Roberts plans and techniques. They included plans for making all the masts and rigging and it was just part of making your own boat. And part of saving money on a big ticket item?

Now rigging has somehow become hallowed ground and cruisers seem scared to take on the repair and maintenance of standing rigging.
What's changed?
Have cruisers become soft? less ruggedly independent than before?
Thoughts?
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Old 27-12-2010, 15:12   #155
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Good post good info. any photos?
Have a look at website, Head Sail Furler Details
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Old 27-12-2010, 15:15   #156
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Virtual: I like the idea of being self sufficient and try to do all my own work. However, I'm still really green when it comes to sailboats and especially rigging. I'm about to replace all my chainplates myself, including the fabrication, but am not sure I want to tackle the stays and shrouds myself.

In fact, I haven't even looked into doing it myself. Where do you start? My mast is down and I've removed all of them -- they're sitting on my foredeck right now (under a foot of snow, but they're there).
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Old 27-12-2010, 15:27   #157
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G'Day all,

Thinking about the decision between DIY and hiring it done... yes, if one hires a rigger to do the job, one is paying for and receiving his expertise and equipment, and if a good job results it is all fair. If one chooses to DIY, it may or may not save money, and may or may not result in a good job. But, at the end of the job, one now has the beginnings of expertise and likely some of the equipment to apply to the next job. For the offshore cruiser, this is a step towards independence. IN general, for me, this makes it worthwhile. I gather that it is not so for everyone, and I don't argue with that... folks are different.

In the case of replacing rigging, the tools required are minimal if mechanical terminals (ie Norseman or Stalok etc ) are used, and the skills are not too arcane. I recall being a bit nervous the first time I did it, but with the encouragement of more experienced yotties I succeeded -- so, Mark, I encourage you to give it a go when it is time to do the rest of the wires. I too have discomfort with heights, but have learned to deal with it at the masthead. If that is a sticking point with you, perhaps a fellow yottie will do that part for you. Most of the important parts are done with the wire lying flat on the dock/ground, while the work aloft is merely attaching and detaching the wires... simple mechanical stuff.

Anyhow, I'm sure that you'll work it out!

Cheers,

JIm and Ann s/v Insatiable II lying Towlers Bay, NSW, Oz
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Old 27-12-2010, 15:46   #158
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Mark... you could go all the way and replace with Galvanised wire... its flexible, so you can make up eyes for the bottle screws using u-clamps.. its much much stronger and lasts a hell of a lot longer...
Basically you'd be upgrading your rigging strength and longevity simply by replacing with wire of the same size... the money saved would be enough to buy you a new Tan Genoa from Doyles...
Why Tan...?? thats the down side... white Gennies soon mark up rubbing against the wire.. thats why the old ships/sailing barges so often had those romantic
"Red sails in the Sunset...."
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Old 27-12-2010, 16:00   #159
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Jolly good show, old boy!
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Old 27-12-2010, 16:09   #160
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Mark... you could go all the way and replace with Galvanised wire... its flexible, so you can make up eyes for the bottle screws using u-clamps.. its much much stronger and lasts a hell of a lot longer...
Basically you'd be upgrading your rigging strength and longevity simply by replacing with wire of the same size... the money saved would be enough to buy you a new Tan Genoa from Doyles...
Why Tan...?? thats the down side... white Gennies soon mark up rubbing against the wire.. thats why the old ships/sailing barges so often had those romantic
"Red sails in the Sunset...."
Gosh ! Mighty messy.

I didn't sail with gal shrouds but started out with gal halyards and guys. Had to oil them every winter. Lousy job.
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Old 27-12-2010, 16:26   #161
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Jolly good show, old boy!
Are you English? Not very Australian

DIY anything just keep in mind that most tradesman have made a lot of money redoing DIY work. Cruising does call for much to be learnt so as to both cost cut and get things fixed in remote locations. But as an example putting paint or varnish on will normally not sink the boat if done badly a rig coming down might. Some love to recount a bad tradesman's experience but very rarely there own DIY failure of which there are thousands more. Many moons ago when cars had carburettors of which we specialised in the repair, my supplier mentioned how it was a great business as for every carby repair they would end up supplying two repair kits. The first would be bought by owner to DIY on the weekend the other to the trade on Monday to rectify. This usually required the original fault + the owners stuff up to be corrected, true story

Having read much about MarkJ's adventures it seems that Mark does not spend $$ easily. So when he does my guess is he has weighed up the options very carefully.
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Old 27-12-2010, 16:42   #162
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Congratulations on all of it and enjoy whatever adventures you choose in 2011!
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Old 27-12-2010, 17:04   #163
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Well done!!!

Totally need to hear more details. Might be down to the BVI in Feb. Hope you're around so that I can stand you to a pint (or ten) and get the lowdown.

Cheers!
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Old 27-12-2010, 17:47   #164
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Congratulations to you on doing something most of us will have to enjoy vicariously through someone like your self. I have enjoyed reading all of your posts and the ups and downs of life as well as the voyage.

If you should find yourself in Austin, Texas, you have a place to stay and all you can drink. Hats off to you.
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Old 27-12-2010, 18:00   #165
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Virtual: I like the idea of being self sufficient and try to do all my own work. However, I'm still really green when it comes to sailboats and especially rigging. I'm about to replace all my chainplates myself, including the fabrication, but am not sure I want to tackle the stays and shrouds myself.

In fact, I haven't even looked into doing it myself. Where do you start? My mast is down and I've removed all of them -- they're sitting on my foredeck right now (under a foot of snow, but they're there).
Spend a few bucks on Don Casey's book This Old Boat. There is a good bit of info about replacing your rigging, as well as many other subjects. It's worth the dollars.

I agree with Jim Cate's post. To me, if you know how to keep the water on the outside, have a way to steer, and keep the rig up - you will probably be ok. Most everything on a boat is pretty simple, and not rocket science.

Now, where's MarkJ off to.....

Ralph
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