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Old 20-02-2011, 09:07   #91
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I'm not seeing this as a left wing or a right wing issue, just a matter of good manners and respect for others.
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Old 20-02-2011, 10:32   #92
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The Log.com News

Newport Harbor (like Avalon) will be dropping them into heads and flushing them into holding tanks. I guess it doesn't stop people from discharging at night.

Do it to all boats in a harbor?
Not to debate the good/bad of discharging in a harbor, but legally can a harbor patrol really board your boat and put a dye pack in your system?
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Old 20-02-2011, 10:58   #93
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Unfortunately, settled law in the U.S.A. is that authorities can board your boat and search it at any time, whether underway or not. This includes local police as well as the Coast Guard. I have witnessed in Florida five different law enforcement agencies all circling around checking trying to stop every boat that was waiting to go through an opening bridge. The only one that got into trouble was a dinghy crossing the waterway that didn't have proper registration! As to dye packs, I wish instead harbors just instituted free pumpouts like they do in Westport, Mass. Any boat in the harbor there that is on a mooring can call up the harbormaster and have your boat pumped. Most weekenders just have the harbormaster do it during the week. Myself I wouldn't mind paying a modest harbor fee in my homeport if it included a free pumpout system. If every major harbor did this we could all access pumpouts much more easily. Carrots usually work better than sticks to get people to do things.
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Old 20-02-2011, 12:32   #94
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Besides the older combined systems, even the newer separate systems can be influenced by storm water As the ground water table rises, pressure is exerted on the sewer pipes and, quite, often, the ground water finds a weak spot in the joints where the pipe sections meet. The sanitary sewer then becomes, in effect, a giant French drain. It's called I/I (infiltration and inflow) and can be a huge problem as the extra flow of essentially clean water overloads the hydraulic capacity of the wastewater treatment plants resulting in poorer treatment or, in the worst cases, actual bypasses of raw or partially treated wastewater, albeit highly diluted.
\-Steve
And around here that allows the local sewage utility to claim (honestly) that no raw sewage is discharged into the sea. The fact that it's diluted / partly treated sewage that you can smell doesn't count. and I wouldn't drink it..........

and to be fair, they have no real choice - it's just the misleading that annoys folks.

The answer of course is to build a longer discharge pipe (for emergency use). I would favour ending somewhere near France - but apparently deep water discharge not environmentally freindly, whereas along the coastline is ok
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Old 20-02-2011, 14:55   #95
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"Storm drains and Sewer drains are not connected.They are separate systems. "
Joey, as Steve notes, especially in cities that were built a couple of hundred years ago (or a thousand years ago) the systems are indeed connected. They are not spearate and it is normal to close swimming beaches after a heavy rainfall, as the storm system floods out the sewage system and raw sewage is dumped to the outfalls.
Yes this can and should be fixed. All it takes is gobs of money.
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Old 24-02-2011, 14:12   #96
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Re: One More Harbor Dropping Dye Markers in Holding Tanks

Put a dye tab in my head, I don't have a problem with that as I'm always in compliance. I swim in the water too...

My concern is that *they* can do that anytime *they* want in the state of Florida. The local authorities can/will wake you up just to drop one in your head. No reason necessary, just because you are there.

Court ordered search warrants in the state of Florida have time restrictions on them as to when they can be executed. (warrantless boarding of boats however, open 24/7/365)

Apparently we, as a somewhat civilized society, suspended the US constitution with regards to boarding boats and probable cause.
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Old 24-02-2011, 14:18   #97
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Re: One More Harbor Dropping Dye Markers in Holding Tanks

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Apparently we, as a somewhat civilized society, suspended the US constitution with regards to boarding boats and probable cause.
yep .. wonder why they don't do inspections in homes to make sure they are not using incandescent bulbs? or that their sewage lines don't have any leaks?
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Old 24-02-2011, 14:20   #98
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Re: One More Harbor Dropping Dye Markers in Holding Tanks

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In the context of this thread, that's funny right there.
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Old 24-02-2011, 15:00   #99
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Re: One More Harbor Dropping Dye Markers in Holding Tanks

Has anyone tried the "Electro Scan" system: Raritan Engineering | Waste Treatment | LectraSan

When I first heard of this device I was quite skeptical; however, I helped a friend install the system on his boat and it seemed to work like a charm. No odor and extremely little day-to-day maintenance. Another boater in my friend's marine has been using the system on his 32 foot sailboat for 26 years. He said with the manufacturer's recommended maintenance it has worked flawlessly the entire time. I thought a 26 year old waste management system on a boat would be a record, but another boater a few slips down had a 30 year old electro scan and he gave it an A+ rating as well. Both gentlemen said they were aware of many of these systems performing well for 20 plus years on boats of all types.

I think the electro-scan system has been around since the 1960's. The systems are expensive, but can be purchased and installed for around $1,000 - $1,200. That seems very expensive, but with proper maintenance the systems seem to last almost forever. We installed two on my friend's 70 footer in about 8 hours.
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Old 24-02-2011, 16:58   #100
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Re: One More Harbor Dropping Dye Markers in Holding Tanks

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Originally Posted by Jim Woodall View Post
Has anyone tried the "Electro Scan" system: Raritan Engineering | Waste Treatment | LectraSan

When I first heard of this device I was quite skeptical; however, I helped a friend install the system on his boat and it seemed to work like a charm. No odor and extremely little day-to-day maintenance. Another boater in my friend's marine has been using the system on his 32 foot sailboat for 26 years. He said with the manufacturer's recommended maintenance it has worked flawlessly the entire time. I thought a 26 year old waste management system on a boat would be a record, but another boater a few slips down had a 30 year old electro scan and he gave it an A+ rating as well. Both gentlemen said they were aware of many of these systems performing well for 20 plus years on boats of all types.

I think the electro-scan system has been around since the 1960's. The systems are expensive, but can be purchased and installed for around $1,000 - $1,200. That seems very expensive, but with proper maintenance the systems seem to last almost forever. We installed two on my friend's 70 footer in about 8 hours.
I had an original install LectraSan on my 1966 Pacemaker. It was still working fine when I sold it in 2005. They are not legal in "no discharge" zones, though. But they are legal, even in marinas, in most locations. However, don't expect local authorities to understand this. You may have to show them documentation for proof. When you through terms around like "It's an approved Type I sanitation device", and point out that the regulations say specifically "untreated sewage" then they start backing off. Sometimes.

Note: Many people think they have a properly working LectraSan because they don't smell anything. However, it is important to replace the electrodes to really know they are being effective. I venture to say that only a small percentage of them are really working at proper levels.

EDIT: I should have said that for power conscious sailboaters, this is not a good option. Along with your sewage, it also sucks power.
EDIT2: Also, it is really only viable for raw saltwater intake. It uses the salt in the water for conductivity in the water to basically electrocute any living organism. For fresh water use, you must use a salt injector.

-dan
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Old 24-02-2011, 17:51   #101
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Re: One More Harbor Dropping Dye Markers in Holding Tanks

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Also, it is really only viable for raw saltwater intake. It uses the salt in the water for conductivity in the water to basically electrocute any living organism.
Actually what it's doing is making sodium hypochlorite (bleach) from salt water. Same technology we used at the water treatment plant I used to work at. This is why there is a second chamber where the "treated" waste sits until the next flush. Chlorine, in any form, needs contact time in order to work. The second chamber is providing that contact time.

-Steve
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Old 24-02-2011, 18:13   #102
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Re: One More Harbor Dropping Dye Markers in Holding Tanks

I don't know whether anybody on this thread actually swims in the rivers, creeks are harbors in the proximity or down stream from boats that are anchored or moored; however, having just read a book about Cholera and how that disease is spread, the idea of swimming in poo becomes quite uninviting. There is a book about Cholera titled The Ghost Map, and reading it opened my awareness to a totally new view about waste management and disposal near populated coastal areas. Although it is not a common occurence, it is a foreseeable possibility that untreated recreational vessel waste could trigger an epidemic.
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Old 24-02-2011, 18:32   #103
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Re: One More Harbor Dropping Dye Markers in Holding Tanks

As soon as you said Newport Beach Harbor, I cringed. I lived there many years and the Harbor Patrol there is the least friendly bunch of police I've ever met. You would think patroling the OC would be a cushy job, but they treat boaters like it was Alcatraz. I'm so glad to be outta there.
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Old 24-02-2011, 18:49   #104
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Re: One More Harbor Dropping Dye Markers in Holding Tanks

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Actually what it's doing is making sodium hypochlorite (bleach) from salt water. Same technology we used at the water treatment plant I used to work at. This is why there is a second chamber where the "treated" waste sits until the next flush. Chlorine, in any form, needs contact time in order to work. The second chamber is providing that contact time.

-Steve
Ah. Thanks. Somehow I think I should have known that, or remembered it, but obviously I didn't.

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Old 24-02-2011, 19:17   #105
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Re: One More Harbor Dropping Dye Markers in Holding Tanks

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Although it is not a common occurence, it is a foreseeable possibility that untreated recreational vessel waste could trigger an epidemic.
tell that to a certain city that i know of that leaked several MILLION gallons of raw sewage (that we know about) directly into a creek feeding into the intracoastal waterway near my home .. before they fixed it. boaters are small potatoes compared to the land lubber accidents .. but easier to harass and fine.
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