Nilaya / Berserk Missing

[Landkrabbe]

Originally Posted by Doodles

I've been reading these forums for a few months already, because I'm interested in long- and medium-distance cruising, and motor sailing designs. It's not surprising to get new members based on a controversial subject. If you suspect we're the same person, you can ask the administrators to check that. (We're not.)

[mrohr]

Originally Posted by rognvald

The sad reality is that we are experiencing the changing construct of "civilizations" where governments rather than individuals will now dictate your ability to pursue adventure within their proscribed limits of safety. There will no longer be chance, pushing one's self to his/her ultimate limits and dealing with the unknown based upon your own agenda, but rather a bureaucratic format to be precisely followed and accessbile to only a few to pursue adventure. How far would civilization have advanced if this were the case for the last 3,000 years of recorded human history?

Hi:Love you man ,just reading the above has brightened my day.

The sea is the last place on earth where a person of ordinary means may experience true adventure.

Isn't it interesting that every society honors it's live conformists and it's dead revolutionaries.

[chrisc.eit]

Originally Posted by rognvald

Hud, "stunt" is a subjective term based upon one's own values and perhaps prejudices. A stunt to one person may be a life changing experience to another. We are all hardwired differently and some people need more challenges and stimulation than others. This does not mean that anyone is "right" or "wrong," but rather that some people in life beat to a different drummer. When I mentioned advancing civilization, I think of people who have taken chances and gone against the grain of prevailing attitudes to personally enrichen their lives and ,many times, benefit society. For example, Galileo risked imminent death by controverting the Catholic Church's belief that the earth rather than the sun was the center of our universe. His journey was intellectual. When Columbus embarked from Europe both his sailors and the conventional establishment believed the earth was flat. If the government forbade his journey based upon permits or potential danger, this knowledge would have taken much longer to discover. Of course, the lure of gold helped assuage his benefactors concerns. And even the assumed madness of the great polar explorers Amundsen, Byrd, Ross and Shackelton who advanced the knowledge of our natural world and risked both life and reputation were willing to throw all caution to the wind for their personal journey that, similar to Galileo and Columbus, some would have called "stunts." There are some who believe that the "government" is created to protect and nurture people for their own best interest. And there are those who believe that government may impede Man's creativity, drive and accomplishments. Civilization has never been advanced by the many, but by the few . . . the few intelligent, daring souls who seek to push the boundaries of the human condition and experience. And, must all exploration have a utilitarian purpose that is well defined and prescribed in detail or is it still possible to explore for the sake of exploration? Let's hope there will always be an opportunity for those who seek knowledge and adventure to pursue their dreams and goals without the strong hand of government on their shoulders. And really, who is ultimately responsible for one's life? Good luck and good sailing, Ron

Just wanted to repost this and say, "What that guy said."

[rtbates]

Originally Posted by rognvald

The sad reality is that we are experiencing the changing construct of "civilizations" where governments rather than individuals will now dictate your ability to pursue adventure within their proscribed limits of safety. There will no longer be chance, pushing one's self to his/her ultimate limits and dealing with the unknown based upon your own agenda, but rather a bureaucratic format to be precisely followed and accessbile to only a few to pursue adventure. How far would civilization have advanced if this were the case for the last 3,000 years of recorded human history?

Probably has something to do with who you call when your arse is in danger...

I bet it's not your wife or friend or other relative. I bet it's a Govt agency such as the USCG...

I'm totally in favor of a waiver... You sign a release form stating that you take on this voyage 100% at YOUR risk and the USCG will not be expected to come to your rescue..

Then you can be free to do whatever you my like...

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by rtbates

Probably has something to do with who you call when your arse is in danger...

I bet it's not your wife or friend or other relative. I bet it's a Govt agency such as the USCG...

I'm totally in favor of a waiver... You sign a release form stating that you take on this voyage 100% at YOUR risk and the USCG will not be expected to come to your rescue..

Then you can be free to do whatever you my like...

Did not realise the USCG covered the Antartic... WOW..

[ice]

I agree that it is unfortunate that rules and regulations are increasingly permeating the cruising/adventure world. It would be nice if we were ‘free’ and ‘unfettered’ by such rules and regulations.
BUT
If you are going to thumb your nose at the governments, and don’t want to be totally hypocritical, you need to be sure not to call on those same governments for help. Not fire off an emergency beacon when your vessel gets into trouble, not require an air-evac when your vessel sinks, not require medical attention for frostbite, not require refueling (in Cambridge bay and at the pole if they had made it) at the end of a long government supported and subsidized supply chain, not use government provided GPS services and government provided weather services and charts, not leaving behind trash that antarctic stations have to clean up. It is hypocritical to claim to be a ‘free Viking’, but then also take full advantage of all the government provided services and safety net. Jarle’s attitude and episodes have been hypocritical, claiming ‘freedom from government’ while taking full advantage of the services provided by those same governments.

And the plain practical fact is that thumbing your nose at and publicly ignoring those rules will just make things worse for all of us. The regulatory response to that will always be even tighter rules with less flexibility. The best practical approach is to meet the rules as best as possible and show good faith and intentions to the administrators and then generally the rules and enforcement gradually become looser and more flexible. Jarle’s attitude and episodes have and will make things worse for the rest of us who want to cruise and adventure.

That’s all true if he was alone. As expedition leader has further responsibilities to his crew. They are depending on his judgment – to pick a safe anchorage (which he did not do last year) – to make sure they do not end up with criminal records because of his conduct (which he has not done) – to make sure the expedition has the proper resources and backups (which he has not done). As expedition leader he is no longer alone with his choices but has serious responsibilities. He wants to say the crew signed on knowing his ‘viking approach’, but that’s BS. They are young and trusting and depending on his experience and judgment and he has let them down. He has led them to death and criminal records.

The sad thing is that Jarle could have accomplished these expeditions without leaving behind the ill will and negative consequences. Many other cruising sailors and adventurers have. Just for example, we have good friends who just spent two winters (on a 30' wooden boat) in South Georgia. They have no money. But they worked with the officials to figure out how best to do it and made a fabulous adventure (more than anything Jarle has accomplished), and they left good friends and good will behind them.

[Mr B]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Did not realise the USCG covered the Antartic... WOW..

Australia covers most of the Antartic,
The rescue services are split up between countrys, They all have separate area's to cover,

Even tho all countrys collaberate together when rescue services swing into action,

There is a map showing the different are's that the different countrys cover,

Cheers,
Brian,

[Doodles]

Originally Posted by ice

,,,,If you are going to thumb your nose at the governments, and don’t want to be totally hypocritical, you need to be sure not to call on those same governments for help. Not fire off an emergency beacon when your vessel gets into trouble, not require an air-evac when your vessel sinks, not require medical attention for frostbite, not require refueling (in Cambridge bay and at the pole if they had made it) at the end of a long government supported and subsidized supply chain, not use government provided GPS services and government provided weather services and charts, not leaving behind trash that antarctic stations have to clean up. It is hypocritical to claim to be a ‘free Viking’, but then also take full advantage of all the government provided services and safety net. Jarle’s attitude and episodes have been hypocritical, claiming ‘freedom from government’ while taking full advantage of the services provided by those same governments. ...

Hypocritical? Certainly not anymore than our governments and politicians. Just look around. Where do you find more hypocrisy than in the governments of the world and their leaders with all their regulations? This guys actions are a drop in the bucket compared to damage done daily by governments/politicians.

I think the guy is refreshing and must have read some Camus, who said ...

"The only way to deal with an unfree world is to become so absolutely free that your very existence is an act of rebellion."

Or maybe Jack Kerouac:
"[...] the only people for me are the mad ones, the ones who are mad to live, mad to talk, mad to be saved, desirous of everything at the same time, the ones who never yawn or say a commonplace thing, but burn, burn, burn like fabulous yellow roman candles exploding like spiders across the stars and in the middle you see the blue centerlight pop and everybody goes 'Awww!'"

[chrisc.eit]

Originally Posted by ice

...BUT...If you are going to thumb your nose at the governments, and don’t want to be totally hypocritical, you need to be sure not to call on those same governments for help...

previously noted...

Mr Andhoy's lawyer has told a news conference in Norway that the yacht has no emergency beacon because the adventurer does not want to put anyone else at risk if something goes wrong.

So, you're cool with this guy?

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by chrisc.eit

previously noted...

So, you're cool with this guy?

LMAO.... he's told his lawyer....
Wonder if he's told his crew...

[ice]

Originally Posted by Doodles

Hypocritical? Certainly not anymore than our governments and politicians.

I agree the politicians are terrible. But that's not a good excuse for Jarle to also be.

"The only way to deal with an unfree world is to become so absolutely free that your very existence is an act of rebellion."

Perfect . . . if only he had left his sat com at home, left his gps (US defense department run) at home, was not getting government provided weather forecasts, not assumed he would get fuel at the pole (last year) or in Cambridge Bay (NWP), etc etc. He could have refused the air-evac last year and died on the ice. He could have done this in an 'absolutely free way' if he had wanted to, but he has not. He says he wants to be free but he takes everything the governments provide.


"[...] the only people for me are the mad ones, the ones who are mad to live, mad to talk, mad to be saved, desirous of everything at the same time, the ones who never yawn or say a commonplace thing, but burn, burn, burn like fabulous yellow roman candles exploding like spiders across the stars and in the middle you see the blue centerlight pop and everybody goes 'Awww!'"

Nice quote. And there are some truly special mad people out there that I really respect. Just for example sometime look up what Alessandro Di Benedetto did in a mini boat, and what Theis Matzen & Kicki Ericson did the last two winters! And both created good will and many friends during their mad adventures.

My personal sense is that Jarle when he was young was more honestly living 'the Viking', but now has been trapped by his own creation and is now there to make a movie and some money. You know he now has a website selling corporate team building and tours from Berserk - that's about the ultimate Viking sell-out!

Originally Posted by chrisc.eit

no emergency beacon . . . . So, you're cool with this guy?

If he had also left his sat com equipment at home I would have felt he had learned something. That would have been cool and consistent with his 'viking mission'. But he has the sat com equipment on board, and is giving underway interviews, and can call for help anytime. I know enough about human nature in emergencies to be pretty sure he will call for help if he thinks he is about to die. (and how many Berserk Vikings have lawyers?)

[boatman61]

[QUOTE=[COLOR=#0000ff]If he had also left his sat com [/COLOR]equipment at home I would have felt he had learned something. That would have been cool and consistent with his 'viking mission'. But he has the sat com equipment on board, and is giving underway interviews, and can call for help anytime. I know enough about human nature in emergencies to be pretty sure he will call for help if he thinks he is about to die. QUOTE]

No.... thats so's he can be a good skipper...
and save his crew...

[hummingway]

Originally Posted by Doodles

I think the guy is refreshing and must have read some Camus, who said ...

Quote:
"The only way to deal with an unfree world is to become so absolutely free that your very existence is an act of rebellion."

And skipped Becker who said, "Freedom unrestrained by responsibility becomes mere license".

[Doodles]

Originally Posted by hummingway

And skipped Becker who said, "Freedom unrestrained by responsibility becomes mere license".

but don't forget the rest of what he said, which was ..."responsibility unchecked by freedom becomes arbitrary power."

[Landkrabbe]

Originally Posted by boatman61

LMAO.... he's told his lawyer....
Wonder if he's told his crew...

About that: No plans to rescue Kiwi on rogue boat: Govt

Mr Andhoey said the New Zealander was happy enough to be on board, but may not be aware that the four-man crew did not have an emergency beacon because they did not want to put anyone at risk if they ran into trouble.

Really?
The same article says that the stowaway's family is provided consular services by New Zealand, but that the NZ Prime Minister says they won't mount a rescue operation. Do they mean consular services vis-a-vis Russia and Norway?
This article says the NZ authorities want to talk to the New Zealander themselves to ask him if he's OK with going.

This article quotes the NZ Foreign Minister as saying "We had a step back ourselves because [the Norwegian government] had expressed an intention to pursue him themselves." It's a given that Norway will punish Andhøy if he crosses the 60 degree limit, on his return, but the McCully quote sounds a bit like Norway is planning to intercept the vessel. As I said before - wouldn't that be Russia's job now that it's a Russian flagged vessel?

Some more coverage:
South Africa, Independent: ‘Idiot’ skipper to try again
UK, Telegraph: Repair man accidentally joins South Pole expedition