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Old 03-04-2012, 16:42   #301
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Re: Nilaya / Berserk Missing

G'day, mates. Maybe New Zealand's consular services are arranging an alternative to flying for Busby:
Team NZ Camper finally arrives in Chile - Yahoo! New Zealand Sport
Cheers.
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Old 03-04-2012, 17:22   #302
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Re: Nilaya / Berserk Missing

Norwegian journalists have arrived in Puerto Williams and have started filing stories and photos from there. Andh°y's lawyer had said that Andh°y would wait to make more accusations until he's back in Norway, but I wonder if he'll be able to wait.
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Old 04-04-2012, 19:24   #303
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Re: Nilaya / Berserk Missing

Interesting speculation about accusations (actually on reflection, it's perhaps more sickening than interesting): Will he continue to drip feed them, or will he save them up for an "Oscars Night"-style presentation (with all the sincerity and cogency that suggests)

Jarle's tactics of accusation by insinuation are the sort of thing Bart Simpson might adopt if he ever makes it to adolescence. When confronted with evidence of his latest transgression, you can imagine him coming out with something along these lines: "That's a good question, and I have an even better one for you: what would account for a middle-aged school principal, who lives alone, whiling away his time spying on teenage boys?"

It also reminds me of the sort of assymetrical constraints exploited by insurgents who are in conflict with an armed force sufficiently old-fashioned to feel bound by the Geneva convention. It's what I was struggling to articulate earlier in this thread when I described him as poking a tiger through the bars of a cage.

To the contributor who feels somehow vindicated in having earlier said "I don't think Chile cares about Andhoy and crew", I'd like to try to put this latest development in context.

Having spent the last year poking the Norwegian tiger in the rump and the NZ tiger in the eyes -- and presumably disappointed at the lack of snarling and other theatrics -- Jarle was merely tiptoeing past the Chilean tiger's cage, avoiding eye contact, on his way to somewhere else, when a muscular paw reached out and pulled him in. And he's still in there some days later, although the tiger's claws are sheathed.

My earlier comments about Chile being made of sterner stuff were explicitly to do with what would happen if he were to try poking them, the way he habitually does elsewhere.

I'd be interested to hear accounts of any other First-world Navy which currently routinely intervenes in innocuous passages, from and towards other jurisdictions, but touching their waters. Personally, I think that qualifies as stern.
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Old 05-04-2012, 16:40   #304
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Re: Nilaya / Berserk Missing

The Norwegian Polar Institute have initiated their investigation, but are on Easter Holiday now.

The Armada is also on Easter Holiday, so they won't be processing this case until after Easter, especially since the Nilaya's predicament is self-inflicted.

Andh°y and co are sitting in their boat safe, showered, eating the Armada's bread and water and grumbling about New Zealand to the press.
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Old 05-04-2012, 16:56   #305
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When I was young my dear grandmother would pine away the afternoon seeing and watching all the days 0f my lives and I think general hospital. I thought this absolute dribble although the was fantastic on a sewer. Andoiy is feeding us dribble seems a capable sailor. Soap opera dribble and some talent reminded me. This guy missed his calling . We have whale wars and now sail bot and all the days that I sailed with a touch of gilligans island. starring blonde nireeigan dude as captain goner pile as stow away this could be the next mud afternoon brain drain fir american tv. I am so hoping he daails to Cuba. There he falls in live with a visiting Canadian tourist Lucey. Through a unfortunate circumstance Lucey is jailed with her best friend ............
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Old 05-04-2012, 17:32   #306
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Re: Nilaya / Berserk Missing

Quote:
Originally Posted by Landkrabbe View Post
....
... Andh°y and co are sitting in their boat safe, showered, eating the Armada's bread and water and grumbling about New Zealand to the press.
Pussies.

Grumbling about Chile to the press, now that would show a hint of integrity.

Fighting their way to the wild blue yonder with a bit of deft axe-butchering and a few captives of breeding age, that would show Viking spirit.

AND make great TV.

- - -

as for the soap opera suggestion:

nice riff mate, funny too ... would be even funnier if it were less true .....
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Old 06-04-2012, 19:00   #307
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Re: Nilaya / Berserk Missing

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.... Andh°y's lawyer had said that Andh°y would wait to make more accusations until he's back in Norway, but I wonder if he'll be able to wait.
Well, you can stop wondering. The ability to carry through on undertakings made, to delay gratification, or to control emotional impulses: these appear not to be strong points.

"Jarle rages against New Zealand: - We have new evidence", the headline reads.
Jarle Andh°y claims he has new evidence of a lie from the New Zealand authorities.

With apologies to Tui:
"Yeah, right" (OK, I added that bit)

Dagbladet.no - jarle andhy

Jarle has a number of things on his side, and one of them is ultra-short concentration spans on the part of his followers.

[I recall exploiting the same (perceived) limitation on the part of my aging father, as a child.
"Did I tell you about the A in Chemistry?" I would cheerfully ask on arriving home.
Message rinsed and repeated every few days, stopping only once I got an affirmative answer.
When I got a (rather more regular) C-, he only got the one shot ... if that.]

This is not a fresh accusation from Jarle: it has resurfaced ad nauseam on this thread.

When he has had something positive to say, as when he declared his undying gratitude to NZ for the exhaustive search -- to which he claimed he did not feel they were entitled -- he typically says it once, if at all.

{And within a week, his insincerity was revealed when he sank his fangs into them for not resuming the search, using expensive satellite imagery}

The 'new evidence' does not throw any fresh light on the misunderstanding about what happened with Jarle's various abandoned items, or drag it across the considerable broken ground which separates a misunderstanding from a flagrant lie.

-- a misunderstanding greatly assisted, if not caused, by Jarle's ab initio posture of hostility and blaming, his irrational behaviour on returning to the base (evidently mistaking it for a hotel, he demanded to stay the winter there) and his repeated refusals to respond when asked to discuss what should be done with the stuff.

To me it looks as though the worst 'crime' the guys at Scott Base could conceivably be guilty of is that of not rising to Jarle's expectations of an infinite duty of care in his direction.
There may well have been a further misunderstanding between Scott Base and McMurdo Base: they're on friendly terms, but do not live in each others' pockets.

Jarle's self absorption rivals that of a kid who drops his bmx bike across the footpath before disappearing into a video parlour, and then throws a hissy fit at an adult for their manifest disrespect in daring to move it.

Worse than that: you have to wonder if he's crossing over from arrested development into a full-blown persecution complex.
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Old 06-04-2012, 19:07   #308
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Re: Nilaya / Berserk Missing

NRK reports that they've left the boat and gone ashore. It wasn't clear if that included the New Zealand citizen.

For all the people who are mad or sad because the days of testing your limits in Antarctica are gone, that everything is too safe and sterile today I just thought of something: It's not true. You CAN test your limits there; you can pedal your way to the South Pole on a toy tractor if you wish. Sail the Ross Sea in a replica Viking longship. Walk to the pole in Viking era clothing, with rations of dried cod, salty pork and meed. You can do all those things, and I think you would have a good chance of having your expedition approved, as long as you did one crucial thing: Bring a safety team.

A safety team has precedence in expeditions, survival experiments and military exercises. The safety team would have the necessary equipment, medical personnel, etc. but would not assist the experiment participants until it becomes necessary - either because the participants ask for help, or because the safety team sees that the situation is becoming unsafe and the participants have lost good judgment. Depending on the rules or protocol, a safety team intervention might be seen as a failure of the experiment, a loss of points, or just a learning experience on the way forward. Some might think having a safety net makes the experience less genuine, but it beats dying or having to inconvenience innocent third parties.
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Old 07-04-2012, 11:36   #309
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Yeah, right! Skip the safety team idea. Just do it. Plenty of adventurers out there. Unless your a media hog, you can go just about anywhere . You can always write about it afterwards. Sure,you might die. Always a price. Still hugh parts of the earth unexplored. It's all in the preparation. Friend now doing the empty quarter. Ancient desert region. She's tagged up with one of the last camel caravans that plods through that vast ares. Plenty of adventures. Plenty scary also. That is the challenge.
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Old 07-04-2012, 12:48   #310
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Re: Nilaya / Berserk Missing

somewhat related . . .

Russian/Ukrainian sailing yacht missing in the Antarctic
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Old 07-04-2012, 14:03   #311
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Re: Nilaya / Berserk Missing

Ice

Yikes. I hope they're more knowledgeable about the practice of sailing in those waters than they were about those who preceded them. It's difficult to have the first without the second. Added to which, the mere fact that they're down there at all, at this time of year, suggests perhaps not...

A conventional sailing vessel that size is likely to be pretty deep draft which of course only makes things worse as we've discussed, and it doesn't look like the sort of vessel designed for self-repair or self-rescue, difficult enough once you get up to that size.

Still, communications are difficult, and hopefully they're OK. I personally think, if you're going to really push the envelope, it's fairer to those you leave behind, and to the 'locals', not to have any transmitting capability whatsoever, and it focuses you on self-reliance without distraction of links with people who can't possibly provide helpful intervention

(although of course you lose out on being able to seek potentially helpful advice - but if you know people like that, you could argue, better to take 'em with you!).
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Old 07-04-2012, 14:29   #312
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Re: Nilaya / Berserk Missing

Landkrabbe and Reid

I agree with pretty much all you both say. Landkrabbe's suggestion is, I think, valid in the general case. Not just (although especially) for 'media hogs', but for the vast majority of people: those who have conventional social obligations - meaning that they've interwoven the scripts of their lives with those of others in ways which make coming back alive a paramount consideration.

And Reid's observations, I think, provides a 'second option' which is right on the nail for the rest of humankind. Provided they're making an honest approximation of self-reliance, and making a decent fist of minimising the future damage of their present actions, I personally feel they're entitled to bugger off anywhere without telling or seeking permission from anybody, and do whatever they choose.

The reason I find the second option appealing is that it seems to me more satisfying to apply one's intellect to working out how to survive than to working out how to comply.

And less complicated doing the former when one is not simultaneously trying to portray, for mass consumption, someone who knows what they're doing -- whether it be for their benefit, or in an attempt to preserve self-regard.

My highest level of respect is reserved for those who succeed in applying the second option, and then don't even feel the need to tell everyone about it afterwards.
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Old 07-04-2012, 17:09   #313
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Re: Nilaya / Berserk Missing

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Originally Posted by Andrew Troup View Post
Landkrabbe and Reid

I agree with pretty much all you both say. Landkrabbe's suggestion is, I think, valid in the general case. Not just (although especially) for 'media hogs', but for the vast majority of people: those who have conventional social obligations - meaning that they've interwoven the scripts of their lives with those of others in ways which make coming back alive a paramount consideration.

And Reid's observations, I think, provides a 'second option' which is right on the nail for the rest of humankind. Provided they're making an honest approximation of self-reliance, and making a decent fist of minimising the future damage of their present actions, I personally feel they're entitled to bugger off anywhere without telling or seeking permission from anybody, and do whatever they choose.

The reason I find the second option appealing is that it seems to me more satisfying to apply one's intellect to working out how to survive than to working out how to comply.

And less complicated doing the former when one is not simultaneously trying to portray, for mass consumption, someone who knows what they're doing -- whether it be for their benefit, or in an attempt to preserve self-regard.

My highest level of respect is reserved for those who succeed in applying the second option, and then don't even feel the need to tell everyone about it afterwards.
those who actually engage in high risk adventures usually are unique persons who dont have conventional obligations. to some degree, explorers are anti social; otherwise they would do the sensible thing and stay home.
they do however provide an invaluable service by telling others afterwards, assuming they survive, what they did and how. in doing so, the explorer pushes our conventional mind sets beyond the edge of our chairs and doorsteps. plus it makes good reading before going to sleep at night.
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Old 07-04-2012, 19:15   #314
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Re: Nilaya / Berserk Missing

Missing sailing yacht makes contact in the Antarctic

Bad ice, running out of fuel and food, water damage to communication gear, but ok and trying to get out of the ice and heading toward chile.

They will run into Jarle there and can debate who was farthest south
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Old 07-04-2012, 19:28   #315
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Re: Nilaya / Berserk Missing

Yes, I agree with reed1v, telling tales of derring-do can indeed serve the common good, if we're talking about explorers, as opposed to the likes of Andh°y.

.... Always provided, in writing up their deeds, that they set out to inform .. (by telling the whole truth, including the stuff which makes them look bad - like, say, David Lewis, even though he shared some of Jarle's other vices)

... rather than calling on the selective amnesia involved in writing, say, a Curriculum Vitae
(which modern day explorers tend to need to do, regardless of their integrity and humility, to keep prospective sponsors sweet),

... or simply setting out to entertain, with no regard whatsoever for credibility (like, say, Tristan Jones): if their accounts are not credible, EVEN IF THEY'RE TRUE, they serve no useful purpose other than to entertain.

On Edit: thanks ice for the update, all hope is intact.
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