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Old 01-04-2012, 07:37   #271
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Re: Nilaya / Berserk Missing

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Originally Posted by careka View Post
News now on our radio, Andhøy and his ship Nilaya,
is under Chile navy, due to NZ request. they are holding him down in the south of Chile.
Puerto Williams
This is from Jarles spokesman/lawyer in Norway

hope i spelled right

armed guards is watching the crew and ship.

Båten til Jarle Andhøy tatt i arrest - VG Nett
Thanks for the update. And yes, excellent spelling

I suspect that NZ authorities want to interview Busby Noble to determine if he is there of his own decision or wants to come home. Jarle would be responsible for buying Noble plane tickets home if he wants to get off.

If the vessel does not have proper registration, then Chile will want to detain it until that gets sorted out. Jarle's lawyer, with a proper bill of sale, could get it registered in Norway (don't know how long it would take) if it has not been. It was never clear if the vessel was properly re-registered or not - when it was leaving New Zealand there was a claim for a while that it had been Russian registered with a Russian captain on board but no-one has mentioned any of that for a while.

Jarle left New Zealand without proper clearance. I doubt New Zealand really cares much about that so long as he does not return. Chile might fine him for it, but I would guess nothing more.

And Jarle visited the Antarctic without proper permits, but that is in the Norwegian authorities handsand they have implied they will not pursue it until Jarle returns to Norway.
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Old 01-04-2012, 07:42   #272
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Re: Nilaya / Berserk Missing

ref
Jarle left New Zealand without proper clearance
--------
it does say in the newspaper, that Jarles rep. has sent copy of paperwork done when he left NZ ? it is sent to the Chile navy.
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Old 01-04-2012, 09:20   #273
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Re: Nilaya / Berserk Missing

I suppose they'll be on their way once the status of the New Zealand national, and the flag state of the vessel have been established? The lawyer and the Hells Angels guy are saying they're surprised, referring to innocent passage, etc. but once the flag state of a vessel is in question any state may arrest the vessel until it's been made clear. If the Nilaya is still New Zealand flagged, it would be under New Zealand jurisdiction anywhere in the world in addition to the territory she's in, right?
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Old 01-04-2012, 09:25   #274
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I am definitely no fan of Jarle and all the chaos that seems to follow him, but it does seem to raise the spectre of paperwork and regulation.

While I feel the need to qualify that I understand in a overpopulated world that we need to regulate entrance into protected spaces, it still chafes me that our movements as sailors are so controlled and restricted...sigh...

...I long for the old days. But I suspect every generation of sailors longs for the same
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Old 01-04-2012, 09:38   #275
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Re: Nilaya / Berserk Missing

Many places we can sail rather freely; cruising around western Europe for example is a whole other ballgame than cruising in the tenser regions like the eastern Med, the Strait of Hormuz or the southern tip of South America with its political tensions. I mean, there's a trade war going on down there right now, and tensions are rising around the Falklands. Fleeing from New Zealand to South America is a bit like jumping out of the fridge and into the fire.

It's not really that hard to get permission to sail in Antarctica; if you have a well planned expedition, got yourself SAR and cleanup assistance, etc. the government only have to rubber-stamp their approval on your plans. The main challenge will be the tough environment itself.
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Old 01-04-2012, 10:24   #276
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Re: Nilaya / Berserk Missing

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Originally Posted by careka View Post
ref
Jarle left New Zealand without proper clearance
--------
it does say in the newspaper, that Jarles rep. has sent copy of paperwork done when he left NZ ? it is sent to the Chile navy.
Jarle's lawyer is claiming that Jarle 'informed' New Zealand that he was leaving, but that does not in anyway qualify as a proper legal clearance, and we know he did not obtain proper clearance. Proper clearance is required (by most all nations) to ensure the vessel and crew have proper registration (not stolen or unregistered) and passports - which in this case are in doubt (we have been told that Busby does not have a passport with him), and are not departing with 'potentially escaping criminals' (I am not sure if NZ considers Jarle in that category due to his lying on his visa application), or people escaping unpaid bills/debt, or in 'manifestly unsafe vessels' (certainly not the case here).

However, as I said above, I doubt this NZ clearance is the main issue in question. The two important issues I think would be #1 does Busby want to get off, and if so Jarle is legally responsible for his airplane flight. and #2 Is the vessel properly documented/registered?

I do not know if NZ believes that Jarle owns them money for cleaning up after him in antarctic. I have seen some press speculation about that but nothing official.
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Old 01-04-2012, 10:33   #277
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Re: Nilaya / Berserk Missing

Dagbladet is quoting an Armada official as saying that the Nilaya is "not in trouble", but what that means I don't know.
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Old 01-04-2012, 13:40   #278
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Re: Nilaya / Berserk Missing

As usual, Andhøy's PR machine presents speculation as though it were fact.

The NZ Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade have not confirmed that they made a request for the detention; they will only say that Chilean authorities are aware of NZ's concerns.

When asked what grounds had been given, Andhøy's lawyer replied "He (Jarle) has not seen any official papers" but was "told by someone on the base that it happened because of a request by NZ"

The Nilaya is alongside a navy ship in Puerto Williams with three armed guards making sure they are not leaving the base.

He is "at ease with the situation", but "would like to to go to Argentina".

"We are hoping he will be presented with documents or official grounds today; we will wait for that before we contact the Norwegian Foreign Office and request help."

When asked to clarify what grounds the NZ government might have for any such request, the lawyer said
"I think it's a fair guess that their travelling documents are not as they should be"

I personally think it's extremely unlikely that the Chilean Armada would have volunteered the information, either to Jarle or to some low-ranking or civilian blabbermouth on the base, that they were acting as a proxy for NZ.

I also don't think they would have needed such a request, and I think it was entirely predictable that if Jarle strayed anywhere near to Chilean waters, the Armada would vacuum them up without needing to be asked.

If I wanted Chile to act that way, personally the last thing I would do would be to ask them to. They are not anybody's poodle or lapdog.

It seems to me it all comes back to Jarle's operating style. He's a one-man, mobile blame-fest.

He seems constitutionally incapable of seeing anything that happens to him as representing the consequences of his own actions.

He presents as an extreme, almost pathological caricature of adolescent irresponsibility. The fact that he is no longer a teenager, and seemingly teetering on the edge of irrationality, only makes things worse.
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Old 01-04-2012, 14:58   #279
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Re: Nilaya / Berserk Missing

I don’t think Chile was requested by NZ to do anything.
Chile is very protective and professional when it comes to their waters. He had no documentation leaving his last port so that would be strike one. Chile watches boats in the southern fiords so they don’t have to spend more money on rescues of unprepared sailors in out of the way places.
Andhøy was deported from Canada for flaunting our laws, I see his actions as reckless and dragging down the real sailors of the world. I hope the Chileans confiscate his boat, which they have every right to do.
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Old 01-04-2012, 15:33   #280
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Re: Nilaya / Berserk Missing

I wish everyone would just leave him alone. Who really cares what he does? I for one do not. If he isn't hurting anyone let him sail where he may. And don't bother bringing up the fact that the other boat and people were lost, it could happen to anyone anywhere. (just more likely down there)
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Old 01-04-2012, 15:54   #281
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Re: Nilaya / Berserk Missing

According to the latest news update on NRK, it seems Chile is most concerned with Busby Noble's lack of passport and that he reportedly was compelled to come along. If he again confirms that the story that he was "forced" to come was just made up for the media, Chile will let the Nilaya be on her way once New Zealand has furnished him with a passport. The New Zealand embassy is standing by to provide consular services to Noble, NZ media reported.

Chile says the crew are free to go - they're not arrested - but the Nilaya is detained until Noble's status is legal again.

Edit:
According to this online report
http://www.nrk.no/nyheter/norge/1.8058836
the Hells Angels guy is saying he hopes the Norwegian department of state will contact Chile about the situation. But on the news earlier today, the same Hells Angels guy said that he and Andhøy had intentionally not been in touch with the Norwegian state department about this situation.

Edit 2:
According to a report in Aftenposten
http://www.aftenposten.no/nyheter/ur...l#.T3jSRB2n0mc
Andhøy and co also gave a false name for their vessel when contacted by radio by the Armada. Not smart.
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Old 01-04-2012, 17:04   #282
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Re: Nilaya / Berserk Missing

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(...) I hope the Chileans confiscate his boat, which they have every right to do.
You are simply wrong!

They have the right to do whatever their LAW dictates. Do you really know Chilean law this well to tell this is the case? Or do you mean that YOU give them the (moral, natural, whatever) right to do so?

If indeed this guy is as bad as depicted in some posts of this thread, then how come he has not been detained yet?

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Old 01-04-2012, 17:15   #283
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Re: Nilaya / Berserk Missing

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If indeed this guy is as bad as depicted in some posts of this thread, then how come he has not been detained yet?
It appears that the relevant countries (Canada and New Zealand and Spitsbergen and Russia) find it easier to fine and deport than to detain (a bit like with Somalia pirates!).

It will be curious what Norway's polar institute approach is when he gets home, since they can't deport him. But I suspect just another fine.

I don't think Chile will do anything serious with him. At worst fine him and ask him not to come back because of lying about his boat name (a bad move on Jarle's part). They will just want to be sure Busby is ok and that all the paperwork is sorted out properly. Unless there is something very improper about the boat registration that will be the end of it for Chile.
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Old 01-04-2012, 17:26   #284
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Re: Nilaya / Berserk Missing

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... If indeed this guy is as bad as depicted in some posts of this thread, then how come he has not been detained yet?
As I understand it, either/both he and his boat are currently being detained.
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Old 01-04-2012, 17:36   #285
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Re: Nilaya / Berserk Missing

Chile is also checking that the vessel is safe. That shouldn't be a problem normally, but in Andhøy's case you never know. We already know they chose not to bring an EPIRB, but as a non-SOLAS vessel I presume it's not required for the Nilaya.

As for punishment in Norway, the Norwegian Polar Institute will just gather facts and refer the case to the police and prosecuting authority, who will decide what punishment they'll seek. Last time it was only a fine, but in Norway repeat offenses will be met by stricter penalties than first-time offenses, so it is possible that the prosecutor could seek a (possibly suspended) jail sentence up to one year.
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