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Old 15-03-2012, 17:31   #256
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Re: Nilaya / Berserk Missing

Somehow, the pirates from Asterix and the Vikings come to mind more than the Vikings themselves.

According to NZ Customs, as reported by APNZ and the Norwegian NTB, this year's trip by Andh°y cost the New Zealand tax payers about 9000 New Zealand Dollars just for the search for the Nilaya, mostly in fuel for the P-3 Orion.

That comes on top of the cost borne by New Zealand and Sea Shepherd for the search for Berserk last year, ATV fuel spill clean-up, and the cost of Antarctic New Zealand sending Andh°y and Massie's gear back to New Zealand this year. If the Nilaya crew didn't collect their old fuel drums and food this year, that may have to be sent back by Antarctic New Zealand too. One presumes Andh°y will be able to pay these costs.

Also, Andh°y has given interviews saying this trip has "confirmed" that New Zealand is covering something up, as well as saying that New Zealand has removed "much of the equipment we were going to collect, like generator and fuel". (Except that the food and fuel is still there, as we already know; specifically, the fuel and food left by Andh°y and Massie is still in a locked container at Scott Base but they would be given access to it if they wanted it, only the ATVs and the gear from Massie and Andh°y were sent back. As for the seaside depots left by Berserk, nobody has claimed to have seen them at all.)

He's even saying that the New Zealand authorities have put their lives in danger, because they have a ton less fuel, less food, and "without a generator we don't have the deicing equipment we should have had"

Andh°y er forbannet pň newzealandske myndigheter - Aftenposten

So let me get this straight: They went late in the season - again - and don't have deicing equipment. They were gambling on finding depots which they before the trip said they weren't sure would be found? They lack fuel and food, but have an extra crew member, and didn't collect their fuel and food from Scott Base as they could have. And now they're going to try their luck with Argentina and Chile, lacking travel documents, with a vessel with an unclear flag state, and in violation of international treaties? Could they end up getting arrested by the Chilean armada?
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Old 15-03-2012, 20:55   #257
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Re: Nilaya / Berserk Missing

Modern yachts can do without a boom at a pinch, and can certainly do without diesel. Of course, Viking longships routinely did without both.

You're right, Landkrabbe, about comic-book Vikings, but even they would have sufficient integrity not to boast about their self-sufficiency immediately before heading the wrong way in autumn, for spurious reasons, to play the injured party on the world stage yet again.

The Argentine base is in a no-win situation just as the other bases have been.

If they help him, they create a very public precedent, fueling an expectation which they do not have the resources to live up to. And, as others have found, even helping him does not insulate them from his propensity to make vile insinuations at a later date.

If (as they should) they politely decline -- and warn him of the appropriate legal action if he sails to Argentina, he is in his best-rehearsed role.

If he were then to, say, to sail north, sink and row ashore somewhere, in the manner of a Francophone comic-book, the problem of the mythological Russian captain and flag status and missing permission from Roshydromet would not have to be confronted, he would have the perfect excuse to have no departure clearance papers, he would be a hero more than ever, and it would all be somebody else's fault. Heck, he wasn't even the captain!

But I'm sure he's more inventive than that. I just wish he would find somewhere less fragile, in terms of cultural and geo-political as well as ecological fabric, to act as a backdrop for his dramatic endeavours.

It's not that much further to Beverley Hills, Jarle. Ride that Humboldt, baby!
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Old 17-03-2012, 18:34   #258
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Re: Nilaya / Berserk Missing

Quote:
Originally Posted by Landkrabbe View Post
and didn't collect their fuel and food from Scott Base as they could have.
The reason for this has been found, apparently:

- Det setter sikkerheten vr i fare - nyheter - Dagbladet.no

Dagbladet is reporting that Andh°y didn't understand that the food and fuel from the land expedition was still at Scott Base, and that only the ATVs and gear had been sent back - something which readers of this thread have known for some time. The Dagbladet article starts out as if this is news to everyone, but for readers of previous news articles this has already been known. That the gear would be sent back was also known by Andh°y in advance, since Antarctic New Zealand had told him this a good while ago.

Andh°y even has his lawyer and his Hells Angels friends to act as spokes persons and media watchers here in Norway, so I don't understand how they could have all missed this.

Andh°y says they have a generator, but that they are now out of gasoline. (I presume the generator runs on gasoline, and that the Nilaya's engines run on diesel fuel. Perhaps Andh°y's complaints about a missing generator to Aftenposten was about a diesel generator?)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Landkrabbe View Post
They were gambling on finding depots which they before the trip said they weren't sure would be found?
Dagbladet asks Andh°y if it wasn't dangerous to presume that the Berserk depots would be available for the Nilaya trip. Andh°y answers that they have backup plans, but that they still had counted on the depots being available since everyone who is in Antarctica is so honest. (Except for .... "Wild Vikings" maybe.)

Dagbladet also contacted the US McMurdo base. They said Andh°y had called them to express concern about the missing Berserk caches, but that he also expressed gratitude for everyone who had helped search for the Berserk.

Andh°y and his lawyer are complaining about bad communication and "double-communication" with New Zealand. To me, it looks like the confusion is all on Andh°y's side, and quite a bit of double communication too when he privately expresses gratitude for the help he receives, but in the Norwegian media blames New Zealand and the USA for not helping, and even causing the Berserk to go missing.

Edit:
According to this
Anger at Norwegian explorer who 'kidnapped' Noble - National - NZ Herald News
, they are already out of diesel, low on food, Busby Noble's girlfriend is pissed off, and Argentina and Chile have been alerted.
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Old 17-03-2012, 19:15   #259
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Re: Nilaya / Berserk Missing

This dude sounds like a walking danger zone
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Old 17-03-2012, 20:26   #260
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Re: Nilaya / Berserk Missing

Quote:
Originally Posted by Landkrabbe View Post
Andh°y and his lawyer are complaining about bad communication and "double-communication" with New Zealand. To me, it looks like the confusion is all on Andh°y's side, and quite a bit of double communication too when he privately expresses gratitude for the help he receives, but in the Norwegian media blames New Zealand and the USA for not helping, and even causing the Berserk to go missing.
Don't you think it's possible that NZ media has an agenda and skews their reporting accordingly?

I don't know much about NZ, but I know every other media outlet I've looked into operates this way...
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Old 17-03-2012, 20:37   #261
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Re: Nilaya / Berserk Missing

Its all a tad thick for me. Remember Hal Roth and 2 against the storm. They wrecked. Sailing in some really crappy places. This is sailing and things happen. Sounds like a storm came up and crew moved a boat and got caught.Sorry they didnt make it but they were all aware of the environment they were in. Like Costa you have to look at multiple failures. Its nice to find a villain and stick it in one place. Its cheap and easy yo do that. There would not be stories or adventure if we all did nothing. Good for him hes trying to have a o at something more then a dock Jockey.
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Old 18-03-2012, 00:00   #262
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Re: Nilaya / Berserk Missing

Quote:
Originally Posted by callmecrazy View Post
Don't you think it's possible that NZ media has an agenda and skews their reporting accordingly?

I don't know much about NZ, but I know every other media outlet I've looked into operates this way...
In this instance, in the few interviews they've been granted, they've refrained altogether from holding him to account for his numerous about-face contradictions and carefully phrased insinuations.

(I just came across smoking-gun evidence of another about-face, incidentally -- perhaps the most serious and cynical yet -- but I'll have to wait till I have a bit more time to document that with appropriate care and dispassion)

I was finding it unbearable that Jarle was getting such a free ride, especially seeing the more reputable of the Norwegian media seem happy to hold his feet to the fire -- or at least, warm them -- on occasions.

However it seems that in NZ the authorities have decided (supported, whether intentionally or accidentally, by the non-tabloid media) to leave his version(s) to swing in the wind.

By this I mean exposed for all to judge, and uncomplicated by attempts to defend what does not need to be defended....

... and trust that the turn of events would show what they have ultimately shown: Jarle has become a stranger to the truth.

Both NZ entities could have taken a much more heavy-handed approach, but that would only play into the hands of his 'reality' script, where he plays the freedom-loving, brave-hearted hero, misunderstood by the expedition sailing community, and maligned, persecuted and out-gunned by bureaucrats from the evil empires of the world.

But ...even without their buying into his script, he's intermittently beloved on tabloid and social media everywhere (although short concentration spans are a problem), and apparently something of a legend among young Norwegians.

I sometimes wonder whether we get lied to so routinely and with so little challenge by celebrities, marketers, spammers, scammers, politicians, lobby groups, media entities and emotional crusaders of every stripe that our BS detectors are progressively becoming desensitised. Social media only seem to make thing worse by making it so easy to lie.

When people *are* challenged, it's often by rabid or bland assertions of polar opposite beliefs, rather than a rational, critical appraisal of the merits of each case.

Everyone falls into this trap sometimes; in fact I seem to recall doing so earlier in this same thread. This led to a raising of the emotional temperature, and reciprocal attacks on my propositions (a couple of which were wobbly) supported by out-of-context quotes and other dishonest tools of argumentation, tactics honest people often use when they "get in too deep" emotionally.

I've started to try to ration my exposure to evidently BS messages, as I've always done for violence and other things to which I have no wish to become accustomed.

If my suppositions about the decline in lie-detection capability by the general public have any basis, the future for jury trials, as a non-trivial instance of collateral damage, looks bleak.

I would argue that it even puts democracy at risk, because the only restraint on populist politicians is a public which feels queasy the moment they open their mouths.

And let us not forget that Adolf Hitler and Robert Mugabe became powerful almost entirely through their extraordinary populist political skills.

<rant mode off>
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Old 18-03-2012, 00:58   #263
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Re: Nilaya / Berserk Missing

Quote:
Originally Posted by Landkrabbe View Post
Dagbladet asks Andh°y if it wasn't dangerous to presume that the Berserk depots would be available for the Nilaya trip. Andh°y answers that they have backup plans, but that they still had counted on the depots being available since everyone who is in Antarctica is so honest. (Except for .... "Wild Vikings" maybe.)
The backup plans seem to include assuming they can refuel from another base. That's like assuming you can walk into a hospital in a war zone and walk out with a few hundred litres of blood plasma.

As for counting on the depots being available:

Firstly, he has occasionally made it clear he doesn't know for sure if they were placed, and if so, where - those left on the yacht may not have had time, with a storm approaching.

Secondly: if the items were landed, the Berserkers may subsequently have decided to move them to a better location. They would CERTAINLY not have had time to reland them a second time, given that they were still in Backdoor Bay when the HMNZS Wellington dropped off the complimentary cigar. In this case, the items would have been lost with the yacht.

Thirdly: it was HIGHLY probable that a depot in Backdoor Bay would be removed.

It's called Backdoor Bay because it's at the back door of Shackleton's Hut. For those who don't know, Shackleton is fairly highly thought of by Antarcticians.

Naturally this bay is a Specially Protected Area and even if you have permission to go south of 60deg, which Jarle failed to obtain, you are still not even allowed ashore there without *special* permission, granted only on compelling grounds, which would generally have to be of benefit to the site.

If either the Kiwis or the Yanks had found a depot there, it would CERTAINLY have been removed, much as a kiwi campervan parked in the foyer of the Sistine Chapel would be.

It does not seem credible that the Vatican authorities would then shrug and say "Campervan? what campervan?" They would be pretty annoyed, and they would want you to know it, and the same goes for Antarctica's special historic places.

But the clincher is this: Lou Sanson (in charge at Scott Base, with a reputation for playing things straight) had been trying for six months to get a reply from Jarle on what he wanted done with the two piles of abandoned gear at the McMurdo ice runway.

Either Jarle had unilaterally closed this channel of communication (opened initially by him), or he was monitoring the channel but choosing not to reply.

In the first instance, it would be hypocritical in the extreme for Jarle to pose as being "furious" about the poor communications, but more importantly, it would be flying in the face of logic and prudence to assume that a depot in Backdoor Bay (one of his favoured locations) would still be there, given how offensive such a depot would be to the 'locals'.

In the second instance, if Jarle was monitoring the channel but choosing not to reply: then we have all been wasting our time trying to find anything useful to learn from this whole sorry saga.
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Old 18-03-2012, 01:42   #264
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Re: Nilaya / Berserk Missing

I agree.
For a press that is renown for spending considerable time talking up something that is of little interest to anybody, they are most disinterested in Jarle.
The journo's are definitely not motivated to rate this clown.
Imo, it is a case of the less said the better.
Besides, who can second guess a clown?
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Old 18-03-2012, 03:56   #265
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Re: Nilaya / Berserk Missing

Everyone that has ever given an interview knows that media can turn and twist and focus on minor details in a conversation to make it a good story.

Andh°y giving interviews through satelite phone, friends giving interviews and others close to him telling their story - its no wonder its difficult to keep track of information - both on his and our side.

All I know is that Andh°y is a man of his words, and I believe many of his "blames and insinuations" are out of pure frustration from being the only one looking at what happened to the Berserk.
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Old 18-03-2012, 04:19   #266
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Re: Nilaya / Berserk Missing

Quote:
Originally Posted by callmecrazy View Post
Don't you think it's possible that NZ media has an agenda and skews their reporting accordingly?
I was talking about the communication between Andh°y and the NZ government, and that I find it incredible that neither Andh°y, his lawyer, or the Hells Angels guy would all fail to pick up on information that's been both reported in the media, and communicated directly to Andh°y, namely that the fuel and food from the land part of the Berserk expedition still was at Scott Base, but that the gear would be sent home.

So far, I find the NZ media's reporting on this case to be mostly straight and honest. There's been a couple NZ articles which have tried to play up Andh°y's support in Norway as if he's some kind of public hero over here, but that might perhaps be more some of the Norwegian media's fault. He has some vocal fans here, but it seems most Norwegians either don't give a hoot or are sick of him. As mentioned, while social media debates have vocal supporters and detractors of Andh°y, his TV shows have failed to live up to expectations ratings-wise.

The public broadcaster NRK knew about Andh°y's plans in advance, as did the Dagbladet and Aftenposten newspapers. They kept Andh°y's secret, but released interviews with him once the cat was out of the bag. NRK and TV Norge are two important sources of income for Andh°y, since they've been airing his TV shows, so one might perhaps turn a critical eye towards them in this case for failing to uphold the "VŠr Varsom-plakaten" (the ethical standards for Norwegian media).

One newspaper in Norway has come out with an editorial strongly supporting Andh°y, namely the free newspaper Vestfold Blad, which comes out in Larvik/Sandefjord Region where Andh°y was born, and is owned by members of Smith's Friends (a.k.a. Brunstad Christian Church).

Quote:
Originally Posted by callmecrazy View Post
I don't know much about NZ, but I know every other media outlet I've looked into operates this way...
A media outlet doesn't necessarily have an agenda in every story they report on no - but they often like to play up conflict and drama to get more eyeballs.
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Old 20-03-2012, 14:14   #267
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Re: Nilaya / Berserk Missing

Yachts which have sailed into McMurdo Sound

As far as I can determine, there have been four.
Two of them made it back out, and a third may yet do so.

The first was a 140' steam yacht, the "Morning", a support vessel for Scott's ship "Discovery", originally built as the Norwegian whaler "Morgenen" for high latitude work. She made it into the sound on her second visit, with the help of explosives, to relieve the "Discovery", which was frozen in.

The second, some eighty or ninety years later, was a little shorter, a little wider, and while still technically a yacht, had more powerful engines, considerably longer range, and was more strongly built even than "Morning".

The stem, for instance, is a single casting in high- strength aluminium , some 400mm deep in the fore and aft direction. The topsides skin plating is 25mm thick. There are no concessions to 'yacht quality' finish: all seam welds remain proud rather than being dressed flush, even below the waterline. The props are wicked looking, 6 bladed hardened stainless steel cleavers, recessed into tunnels within the canoe body silhouette. Their sectional profile is optimised to fracture brash ice so the propellors do not become jammed.
The keels and rudders also retract within the canoe body. (There are two of everything important, including masts; and parts are interchangeable between pairs.) Enough fuel can be carried for several years; engine oil can be repurified and reused.

This was Jean-Louis ╔tienne's "Antarctica", which as the name suggests, was purpose built. Subsequently renamed "Seamaster" under Peter Blake, now "Tara" in his honour. ╔tienne's purpose was scientific; the vessel was built to carry sail, and designed for passive solar heating, mainly so she could stand offshore, hove to for weeks or months, with minimal expenditure of fuel, in support of land expeditions.

I think it's notable that nobody was inspired to try to follow the Morning's example for the best part of the twentieth century, even in a more capable vessel.

There are good reasons:

There is not much there to attract a private vessel.

The sound is a dangerous cul-de-sac and potential lee shore, in terms of ice entrapment, with the entire Ross Sea as a potential storage area for mobile ice.

The ice-free period is too short, too unpredictable, and too late in the season, to be an attractive proposition

Finally there are no safe anchorages (or berths available to private vessels), particularly for a fixed keel yacht which cannot be hauled out, away from ice danger.

On the plus side, however, there is a friendly local yacht club, with a burgee.

Perhaps Andh°y did not understand the strange sense of humour which isolation and adverse circumstances can engender. It's a pity he did not trouble himself to befriend the locals, preferably ahead of time.
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Old 24-03-2012, 15:14   #268
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Re: Nilaya / Berserk Missing

Lets say it's 3500nm from the Ross to the Pensula (depends a lot of how far north you loop).

Jarle has been underway 17 days at 'full speed' and 11 days 'damaged'. Lets say 150nm/day at full speed and 100nm/day damaged = 3650nm.

He should be close to landfall.
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Old 24-03-2012, 16:52   #269
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Re: Nilaya / Berserk Missing

According to a news wire report on Friday, they have left the Peninsula after repairing the boom and are going towards South America. The wire doesn't mention anything about fuel. The Newspaper Dagbladet carried an interview with Andh°y on Friday but it seems the article is mostly about that they plan to return again next year to search the seabed.

http://www.aftenposten.no/nyheter/ir...n-6791171.html
http://www.dagbladet.no/2012/03/23/n...riks/20802714/
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Old 01-04-2012, 06:10   #270
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Re: Nilaya / Berserk Missing

News now on our radio, Andh°y and his ship Nilaya,
is under Chile navy, due to NZ request. they are holding him down in the south of Chile.
Puerto Williams
This is from Jarles spokesman/loyer in Norway

hope i spelled right

armed guards is watching the crew and ship.

http://www.vg.no/nyheter/utenriks/ar...artid=10072827
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