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Old 22-02-2012, 16:26   #196
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Re: Nilaya / Berserk Missing

As someone with aspirations of sailing in those waters, I rejoice in that fact that they are currently largely unregulated. As others have noted, there are no immigration or passport controls, and as Andhoey's last expedition proved, compliance with the relatively light regulatory burden is difficult to enforce. To comply is pretty much voluntary and based on good faith.

This guy, putting himself through a celebrity therapy programme, is trading on the huge public appetite for fake adventurism and phony heroes.

This thread documents a good number of his cynical manipulations of the facts to stir up support from other (presumably damaged) people with 'authority issues'.

That doesn't bother me in the slightest, except for an unintended consequence, as "ice" has eloquently pointed out:

He goes out of his way out to taunt and vilify those "authorities" who have taken on the difficult and very costly burden of trying to preserve Antarctica as the last and only unmodified continent.

In doing this, he actually makes it that more likely that *true* free spirits of the future will be forbidden from sailing there, even those who *can* do so responsibly and self reliantly.
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Old 23-02-2012, 04:33   #197
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Re: Nilaya / Berserk Missing

I just read the article linked in BobSadler's post. I found it incredible that Andhouey is blaming NZ authorities for the deaths of his crew last year...

Quote:
A Norwegian sailor who is illegally in Antarctica's Ross Sea has continued to suggest New Zealand authorities are to blame for the deaths of three sailors in the region a year ago.
What a copout!
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Old 23-02-2012, 05:26   #198
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Re: Nilaya / Berserk Missing

Greetings and welcome aboard the CF, Andrew Troup.

Well said!
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Old 23-02-2012, 15:14   #199
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Re: Nilaya / Berserk Missing

Thanks for the welcome.

I'm torn between turning my back on further discussion, and leaping to the defence of the NZ authorities in question.
It's always a shame to reward attention-seeking behaviour with attention, and I think it's entirely appropriate and shows considerable strength of character that the Royal NZ Navy is conducting itself with such restraint in the face of such vacuous inferences and vile innuendo.

Nevertheless I think someone should dissect his argument, which has multiple levels.

His primary contention is that Berserk would not have left its 'safe anchorage' voluntarily, and that they were 'unwelcome' in McMurdo Sound.

It would be astonishing if the latter part of this claim were not true, and Andhoey can take the entire credit for them not being welcome.

The former assumption seems problematic in a number of ways, and yet he glibly infers that they were probably ordered by the NZ Naval ship "Wellington" to sail out into the impending survival storm.


This inference seems to me remarkably unlikely, for the following reasons:
  1. The RNZN do not have the authority to issue such an order in these waters. The ship was not in any case tasked with any territorial role. It was not in the area conducting patrol or surveillance; it was on sea trials.
  2. The RNZN (unlike, say, the Chilean Navy in areas of dubious jurisdiction) have no history of issuing such orders in these (or any) waters
  3. The ship did not contact Berserk, Berserk contacted the ship to get a forecast, which they got.
  4. The RNZN would have known that such an order would probably result in the loss of the yacht
  5. The RNZN would probably have realised that (as actually happened) putting the Berserk in a difficult situation would put their own warship at substantial risk trying to go to their assistance
  6. The RNZN has released the logs of their communications with Berserk (conducted by radio on an open channel) which show no indication of such an order, and in fact show no evidence of any unfavourable bias towards their presence in the sound
  7. The crew on Berserk were (based on their record) unlikely to submit to any order even from an authorised authority. It seems completely implausible that they would comply with an unauthorised order which was demonstrably stupid and life-threatening without reference to their leader, with whom they were in daily contact, or failing that, with Norway.
    Early reports quoted Andhoey as saying he had heard, directly from Berserk, that they had decided to move out, but there was no suggestion in those reports that they had been ordered to do so.
If Andhoey wishes to take on an adversary worthy of a Viking berserker (sigh) he should move his activities and his tactics to Chilean Patagonia. The Armada would know exactly how to deal with him.
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Old 23-02-2012, 16:18   #200
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Re: Nilaya / Berserk Missing

I doubt very much the NZ navy would order a small boat out into a big storm!
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Old 23-02-2012, 16:30   #201
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Re: Nilaya / Berserk Missing

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew Troup View Post
Thanks for the welcome.

I'm torn between turning my back on further discussion, and leaping to the defence of the NZ authorities in question.
It's always a shame to reward attention-seeking behaviour with attention, and I think it's entirely appropriate and shows considerable strength of character that the Royal NZ Navy is conducting itself with such restraint in the face of such vacuous inferences and vile innuendo.

Nevertheless I think someone should dissect his argument, which has multiple levels.

His primary contention is that Berserk would not have left its 'safe anchorage' voluntarily, and that they were 'unwelcome' in McMurdo Sound.

It would be astonishing if the latter part of this claim were not true, and Andhoey can take the entire credit for them not being welcome.

The former assumption seems problematic in a number of ways, and yet he glibly infers that they were probably ordered by the NZ Naval ship "Wellington" to sail out into the impending survival storm.




This inference seems to me remarkably unlikely, for the following reasons:
  1. The RNZN do not have the authority to issue such an order in these waters. The ship was not in any case tasked with any territorial role. It was not in the area conducting patrol or surveillance; it was on sea trials.
  2. The RNZN (unlike, say, the Chilean Navy in areas of dubious jurisdiction) have no history of issuing such orders in these (or any) waters
  3. The ship did not contact Berserk, Berserk contacted the ship to get a forecast, which they got.
  4. The RNZN would have known that such an order would probably result in the loss of the yacht
  5. The RNZN would probably have realised that (as actually happened) putting the Berserk in a difficult situation would put their own warship at substantial risk trying to go to their assistance
  6. The RNZN has released the logs of their communications with Berserk (conducted by radio on an open channel) which show no indication of such an order, and in fact show no evidence of any unfavourable bias towards their presence in the sound
  7. The crew on Berserk were (based on their record) unlikely to submit to any order even from an authorised authority. It seems completely implausible that they would comply with an unauthorised order which was demonstrably stupid and life-threatening without reference to their leader, with whom they were in daily contact, or failing that, with Norway.
    Early reports quoted Andhoey as saying he had heard, directly from Berserk, that they had decided to move out, but there was no suggestion in those reports that they had been ordered to do so.
If Andhoey wishes to take on an adversary worthy of a Viking berserker (sigh) he should move his activities and his tactics to Chilean Patagonia. The Armada would know exactly how to deal with him.


Based upon the numerous adverse comments in this blog, it is difficult to believe there is not a personal element of jealousy displayed by some of Andhoy's detractors . We, of course, can never be certain of this since it is truly impossible to intervene, even temporarily, in another's most intimate thoughts but a reasonable person could well assume that there is a definite resentment and antipathy that perhaps has a foundation in Andhoy's proven successes and his obvious personal advantages. In Mirabello's "Handbook for Rebels and Outlaws: Resisting Tyrants, Hangmen and Priests," Oxford, England 2009 he states: a rebel is "a nonconformist-untamed,ungelded and undomesticated-a rebel is someone who resists authority, control or convention. Like Prometheus, Satan and Spartacus, he refuses to kneel and obey." It is a convention of human nature that we dislike that which we do not understand. Perhaps there is more here than truly meets the eye.
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Old 23-02-2012, 16:36   #202
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Re: Nilaya / Berserk Missing

I don't think we should be comparing Andh°y to Satan, exactly.

I don't think it jealousy, especially since some of the harshest criticism comes from people with more extensive experience and achievements than Andh°y. Also it's the content of the criticism which counts, even if it had been based on jealousy.

The ignorance shown to good advice, combined with the "screw the rules, I have money" attitude, the faux self-reliance, and sort of ultra-libertarian view of the deserted continent reminds me of when I read about the Texarrakis project, personally. (A bunch of kids who bought some Texas desert, kissed the civilized world goodbye and thought they were going to live off the land without proper preparation.)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew Troup View Post
If Andhoey wishes to take on an adversary worthy of a Viking berserker (sigh) he should move his activities and his tactics to Chilean Patagonia. The Armada would know exactly how to deal with him.
Well you're in luck because that's where he's going after leaving the Ross Sea, according to himself: He's going to South America.

So far I'm impressed that they haven't gotten themselves killed by polar bears or something; yes, I know polar bears don't exist in Antarctica, but if anyone were to introduce them there I thought these guys would be the ones.
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Old 23-02-2012, 16:36   #203
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Re: Nilaya / Berserk Missing

G'day, Andrew. Welcome aboard. Based on over a decade of observing New Zealand's maritime authorities, I very much doubt that the New Zealand Navy would have ordered the Beserk to sea in the weather conditions present.

Here's some background that I base my position on. Every year when the cruising fleet arrives in New Zealand, yachts not imported to New Zealand are given Temporary Import status that is generally for 6 months. There has been some variation to the exact timeframe. over the years.

For what ever reason, many of the cruising fleet will end up not departing until very near the end of their Temporary Import status. Some seek an extension to that temporary status and the rest eventually leave.

I have never known of a yachtie, that has exceed it's Temporary status, that has been set to sea by New Zealand Customs and Immigration when weather conditions are not favorable for a safe departure from New Zealand.

Having said that, some yachties, once formally cleared to depart New Zealand, for whatever reason, do not depart and "anchor up" somewhere along the coast in direct violation of the maritime laws of New Zealand. The Navy does work with New Zealand Customs and Immigration to search for such vessels.

I have permanently imported my yacht to New Zealand but still fly a U.S. flag. Each year, usually during the spring when the cruising fleet is arriving in New Zealand, I am visited (not always boarded) by the New Zealand Customs & Immigartion. Sometimes they are transported by the New Zealand Navy to my vessel. They have always carried out their duties with the utmost professinalism. Doesn't mean it could never happen (afterall they are human), but I would have my doubts.

All the best, Cheers
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Old 23-02-2012, 16:39   #204
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Re: Nilaya / Berserk Missing

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew Troup View Post
If Andhoey wishes to take on an adversary worthy of a Viking berserker (sigh) he should move his activities and his tactics to Chilean Patagonia. The Armada would know exactly how to deal with him.
He may well get an opportunity to meet the Armada.

An open question is where he goes now. He was served with deportation from NZ and can't legally return there.

He (And his crew) would need a visa in advance for Australia, which would be difficult but not completely impossible to get while at sea. But I wonder what Australia's position would be to giving a visa to someone who has been deported from NZ and Canada (all commonwealth countries).

That leaves Chile, which is the 'downwind' destination in any case. That's the natural destination. But he has a crew with no papers, and I wonder if he has proper ships papers (I believe he has claimed it is now Russian registered). Chile might well impound the boat until the crew and ships papers are sorted out. Chile might also want to fly him home to deal with the Antarctic treaty violations, which they are surely aware of.

Whatever one thinks of his anti-authoritarian attitude, it's undeniable his actions are progressively close doors and closing off his own sailing options.
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Old 23-02-2012, 16:49   #205
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Re: Nilaya / Berserk Missing

I'm not an expert, but I don't think Chile cares about Andhoy and crew. They are very relaxed about Antarctic visitors, and last time Jarle met the Chilean Navy in Antarctic waters, they boarded his Vega and shared some Vodka with him.
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Old 23-02-2012, 16:53   #206
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Re: Nilaya / Berserk Missing

"An open question is where he goes now. He was served with deportation from NZ and can't legally return there."

G'day, Ice. Agreed, after he's done taunting, what's next? It's not quite clear if the kiwi has a passport or not (he may be bluffing again).

He can always spend the rest of his life at sea. Cheers.
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Old 23-02-2012, 16:54   #207
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Re: Nilaya / Berserk Missing

Quote:
Originally Posted by rognvald View Post
Based upon the numerous adverse comments in this blog, it is difficult to believe there is not a personal element of jealousy displayed by some of Andhoy's detractors . We, of course, can never be certain of this since it is truly impossible to intervene, even temporarily, in another's most intimate thoughts but a reasonable person could well assume that there is a definite resentment and antipathy that perhaps has a foundation in Andhoy's proven successes and his obvious personal advantages. In Mirabello's "Handbook for Rebels and Outlaws: Resisting Tyrants, Hangmen and Priests," Oxford, England 2009 he states: a rebel is "a nonconformist-untamed,ungelded and undomesticated-a rebel is someone who resists authority, control or convention. Like Prometheus, Satan and Spartacus, he refuses to kneel and obey." It is a convention of human nature that we dislike that which we do not understand. Perhaps there is more here than truly meets the eye.
Well said!

I'm not sure why some feel a need to defend the NZ Navy when they haven't been attacked in the forum my anyone?
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Old 23-02-2012, 16:56   #208
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Re: Nilaya / Berserk Missing

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But he has a crew with no papers, and I wonder if he has proper ships papers (I believe he has claimed it is now Russian registered).
Scott Base has said they'd be happy to accommodate the "stowaway" New Zealander, so it might be possible to offload him there.

What about the Falkland Islands? Being rescued by Prince William would be a funny conclusion to this expedition, wouldn't it?
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I'm not sure why some feel a need to defend the NZ Navy when they haven't been attacked in the forum my anyone?
Because Andh°y never misses an opportunity to blame the NZ Navy for the Berserk being missing. Sometimes he blames the US and Norway too, but never himself and always New Zealand.
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Old 23-02-2012, 16:59   #209
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Re: Nilaya / Berserk Missing

Quote:
I'm not sure why some feel a need to defend the NZ Navy when they haven't been attacked in the forum my anyone?
I believe it is in response to a quoted article in which Jarle himself blames the New Zealand authorities.
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Old 23-02-2012, 17:06   #210
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Re: Nilaya / Berserk Missing

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Originally Posted by Astrid View Post
I believe it is in response to a quoted article in which Jarle himself blames the New Zealand authorities.
Yes, I understand that but the response should then be directed to Jarle and I doubt he reads CF much.

Nobody here is blaming the NZ authorities.
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