New Red Tape for Caribbean Cruisers

[rleslie]

Originally Posted by Therapy

You get taxed and have to be checked in and out of each state as you cruise?

Surely not.

Perfect timing on your question. About two hours ago, my wife opened our mail and found two bills from the Sarasota County Tax Collector.

$129 for our boat and $10.50 for our dinghy. The bill is labeled "Registration Renewal". The odd thing is, we reside in NC and the boat is documented with a NC address. However, to enjoy the beautiful water of Florida (on our way to the Bahamas) we need a Florida registration.

So, the answer to your question is YES, I am taxed for entering Florida with a NC boat.

[slomotion]

Joe may be right, but I'm inclined to disagree. I suspect that some of the bizarre new rules are either a reaction to or actually required and dictated by U.S. policy. From the logs of Wind-Borne III, Carriacou, Grenada, January 25, 2006:

"While Rick was cleaning the lobster, Rick (La Vie) came by. He had gone to a general meeting that was held by the Carriacou Port Authority in town last night for all ships captains. The meeting was another of the U.S. Homeland Security demands. Carriacou (population 5000) is going to have to secure the only two wharfs on the island if it wants to be able to receive cruise ships. This pertains to any cruise ship (not just American) that wants to stop here and then in the future at an American port. The cruise ships are too large to pull up to the wharfs they must use tenders to transport their guests ashore. Meanwhile to appease the U.S. Government, the wharfs (and probably the beaches) will have to be secured. All fishermen, Yachties, Water taxies etc. if allowed to use the wharf in the future, will be required to obtain and show a special Identification in order to walk on the wharf. I think the cruise ships should take on some of the responsibility of security rather than forcing the small Caribbean islands to do so. The vision of all Caribbean islands with beautiful sand beaches is quickly being transformed by the U.S. government to be a chain link fence with sand behind it. The U.S. Government makes the demands of these little islands but provides no financial support to see their requirements put in place. The small population of the island must pay for it all. It’s nice to know that many of the U.S. citizens cruising down here are becoming very embarrassed by the actions of their little dictator (President) in power. Now that I’ve vented for a few moments I will step off my soap box and relax."

[rleslie]

Originally Posted by alaskadog

What seems to be the general trend today is that some of the Central American countries, and the USA also,are trying to ease things a bit for the small boat cruiser or at least tying to consider the special situation of the small cruiser. Mexico has eased up considerably and the CA3 countries are trying to simplfy the requirements of cruisers who travel very frequently within and between these countries. It will never be as simple to clear in when arriving on a boat as when flying or driving in and should not be. These countries have valid concerns that they have to address, such as boats smuggling in products for sale on the black market and in the case of Belize and Guatemala concerns about protecting their agricultural industry from importation of pests and diseases. And they charge fees which probably help to offset the cost of doing their work. No complaints here for the most part except for the insistence of the Mexicans that I have to have an Importada for my occasional entry into and transit of their country. But I have the same complaint for much of the taxation that is applied especially to boat owners by many of the states in the USA.

Joe

I totally agree with this assessment. These governments normally have valid concerns and reasons for implementing their respective regulations and many are working to make the entry by visitors a smoother process.

However, our regulations are such that we have no room to criticize other countries. As Chuck points out, if you don't like their regulations don't go.

I initially read Hud3's comments as a criticism. In hidesight, I see that they were not and I apologize. As I stated previously, I appreciate his effort to pass the information on to everyone.

[Vasco]

Originally Posted by rleslie

Perfect timing on your question. About two hours ago, my wife opened our mail and found two bills from the Sarasota County Tax Collector.

$129 for our boat and $10.50 for our dinghy. The bill is labeled "Registration Renewal". The odd thing is, we reside in NC and the boat is documented with a NC address. However, to enjoy the beautiful water of Florida (on our way to the Bahamas) we need a Florida registration.

So, the answer to your question is YES, I am taxed for entering Florida with a NC boat.

I was not aware that you needed FL registration just for passing through. Many of my Michigan buddies pass through all the time and have never done this. In fact I know of no one who's done this. Perhaps you kept your boat in Sarasota County at one time or bought it there. There must be more to this.

[rleslie]

Originally Posted by Vasco

I was not aware that you needed FL registration just for passing through. Many of my Michigan buddies pass through all the time and have never done this. In fact I know of no one who's done this. Perhaps you kept your boat in Sarasota County at one time or bought it there. There must be more to this.

I didn't think so either until I got a ticket from a Florida Fish & Wildlife officer (I think that is what they are called). We spent 5 months sailing down the gulf coast of Florida and back up to NC.

The Florida registration can be avoided if:
"vessels already covered by registration numbers awarded according to a federally approved numbering system of another state or by the United States Coast Guard in a state without a federally approved numbering system, provided that the vessels are not operated in Florida waters more than 90 consecutive days."

So you are correct if the vessel is just passing through, there is no need to register.

[Vasco]

rleslie,

This is not unusual. In Maryland they tax all the Virginia boats that are berthed in Maryland marinas.

[rleslie]

Rick

I just thought that it was funny that Therapy asked the question a few hours after we opened the bill. We will just be passing through this year and will not re-register the boat, but if we were staying for 90 days......................

[Therapy]

Originally Posted by rleslie

Rick

I just thought that it was funny that Therapy asked the question a few hours after we opened the bill. We will just be passing through this year and will not re-register the boat, but if we were staying for 90 days......................

This seems more of a money making scam for the state than a security issue / excuse.

Pretty sorry though.

I think I would just tell them I have only been here for a few weeks wherever I was.

They are not checking passports and issuing visas so they can't check the dates either.

And all the while I though a documented vessel was all that one needed to have to cover it all.

Dang!

[Therapy]

Bopping around and came across this one.

Taxation Headaches - Cruiserlog's Sailing Forums and Free Cruising Crewfinder=

Things are becoming a bit stifling all over it seems.

[alaskadog]

I was in the midst of posting a long reply yesterday when I lost my WIFI connection and the message got dropped. I will make it more brief this time. rleslie cleared up the Florida tax situation which I was explaining in probably needless detail. And Vasco told about the situation in Maryland that I was also going to mention. Gentlemen and sailors, in boating it is all about the taxes. Most of you are probably aware that to register a boat in a new state (for example, if one moved from one state to another) that the new state will try to charge you the sales tax on your boat again in order to register it. This is in the case where the state where you bought it may have a lower tax rate than the new state. Or if you buy a boat in Florida and move it out within 30 days you can avoid their sales tax but your new state will tax you at their rate. In Florida I do not anchor or stay in a marina for more than a few days at a time. That way the Florida Fish and Game officers ( please read, BOAT TAX GESTAPO) can not easily set their sights on you and hassle you for a registration. In Alabama, your dingy is not required a registration if it is used solely as a tender (can not use it to fish from, etc). I once had a Florida fish cop tell me that I needed to register my dingy when he saw no numbers on it. I told him it was an Alabama boat and I was just passing through. The idiot said that all states required registering boats that had motors. I told him he was wrong on that count and on another. In Alaska where I lived for almost 30 years, that state does not require state registration for Federally documented boats. And the state registration for a sailboat of a size like mine only costs $30 and it is good for 3 years. Florida fish cops, like fish cops in many states, are not the brightest light bulb in the house. At least in Mexico, their Importata which cost $50 US if you are going to be navigating or staying in their waters for over a couple of weeks will last you for 10 years. It is all about taxes. I know of no other conveyance means (i.e., snowmobiles, bicycles, ATVs, or autos, etc.) where the government at different levels tries to get their hands in your pockets so completely. Ever since the Stamp Act of the 1760's people with my attitude have been vigorously protesting egrecious and unfair taxes. Oh yeah, BTW I will complain about other states and other countries all I darn well please. I complain about the conditions where I happen to be. I always felt like home is where I hang my hat and rest my weary bones. Kinda like I am a world citizen. But in general I have no complaints about the officials or the charges in the countries I have visited. I have, on the whole, been treated quite fairly and professionally with but few and minor exceptions. Gosh, I still could not make this brief. I must have too much time on my hands.

[Hud3]

It might be a good idea for someone to start a thread on "Boat Taxes". Seems to be a fair amount of interest in the topic.

[hellosailor]

Its not just boats, folks. Boats would be exempt from most of your tax complaints. It is mainly MOTOR VEHICLES that are taxed, and that includes MOTOR BOATS. If your sailboat also has a permanently installed engine, then it is not a "sailboat" it is an "auxiliary motor boat" meaning, there's an auxiliary engine and it is not a MOTOR VEHICLE subject to all DMV rules in most states. (A few treat boats differently.)

If I take a car with New Jersey plates and drive it down to Florida for the winter, and keep it parked in my driveway for 91 days, guess what happens? The NJ registration is void and there's a penalty for not registering the MOTOR VEHICLE properly in the new state (Florida) where is has been for longer than the required period--which is as little as 31 days in some states.

Boats are just bigger richer targets, they get hit more. And, boat or car, wait till your insurer gets notified that your "home address" and registration have changed.

So, this is not a "boat thing" at all. Got a boat? Got a hash pipe? Good, the same ground rules apply. Find out if it is legal to show them or use them in public, whenever you take them someplace new. Travelers have been getting dumped in foreign holes for "I didn't do anything!" since travel was invented. The nice thing is, the locals are much less likely to cook you and eat you these days. Most places, anyhow. [g]

[JohnnyC]

Could they be deliberately discouraging visits by small craft??? Better income from the cruise liners?

[Reality Check]

While no one likes taxes, including myself... these are user taxes that states are applying. Most states including Florida, are required to use these funds to provide facilities in support of boating and related items such as conservation of natural resources ie fish and state lands... all water covered land along the coastal areas of Florida are State Owned. Your marina has to pay the state rent based on the area covered by their slips which does drive up marina cost.

Many of these facilitates are used by boaters from outside the state, particularly in Florida for far more than simple transit time... they are more frequently permanently stationed here and seldom if ever leave state waters. That is the reason for the 90 day time frame.

Again I don't like taxes but I'm also not a socialist and expect everyone else (big national government) to pay for things I need to enjoy. Where do you think big government get the money???

The major problem I see is the inefficiencies in the administration and the inefficiencies/ inconveniences ie: poor management by these agencies. Simplifications and standardizations would save money in administration and allow more effective use for the facilities for which they were collected. The state fees are not typically directed toward security but facilities. Overall it may prove more efficient if states pulled out of these activities and allowed the free market to operate in supplying local marine services.

[slomotion]

Back on topic - I finally read the Caribbean Compass article - should have done so sooner. Evidently, the inspiration for the new API requirements is a combination of U.N. resolution, U.S. Homeland Security policy and believe or not, the Cricket World Cup. Oddly, the U.S. exempts non-charter yachts from API, and the CARICOM API requirements are 'so far' only being enforced in Antigua and are subject to potential exemption by the legislatures of member states. For excellent research/history/analysis go here:

Advance Passenger Information

Same link that Hud3 provided before this thread got off track.