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Old 14-07-2012, 16:55   #16
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Re: new anchoring regs in fl keys up for public comment

Simple solution to most anchoring problems. Every boat anchored should be required to make way to the Harbor Office under it's own power every 90 days and prove that it has a working holding tank, an anchor light, oil-free bilges, and adequate fire extinguishers. If they can't do that they're a derelict. Give them a 30 day warning, then a 30 day impound and cut it up and sell the lead off of the bottom.
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Old 14-07-2012, 16:59   #17
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Re: new anchoring regs in fl keys up for public comment

I don't know why you would want to anchor in Key West. A marina slip for a 37ft boat is only $130 a night.
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Old 14-07-2012, 17:11   #18
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Re: new anchoring regs in fl keys up for public comment

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Simple solution to most anchoring problems. Every boat anchored should be required to make way to the Harbor Office under it's own power every 90 days and prove that it has a working holding tank, an anchor light, oil-free bilges, and adequate fire extinguishers. If they can't do that they're a derelict. Give them a 30 day warning, then a 30 day impound and cut it up and sell the lead off of the bottom.
So you feel we need to be regulated as if we were children? What's next? Counting the squares of toilet paper we use every 90 days? Or how about we also regulate the houses. Every 90 days there's an inspection of your house to check your smoke alarm, fire extinguishers and garbage disposals still operating? Where does it end?
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Old 14-07-2012, 17:35   #19
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Re: new anchoring regs in fl keys up for public comment

I think the "90 day" idea is a constructive idea to help preserve our lifestyle. An all or nothing approach will fail in this matter with little right to anchor anywhere.
On the upside, most cities won't be able to afford to police the anchorages pretty soon!
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Old 14-07-2012, 19:24   #20
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Re: new anchoring regs in fl keys up for public comment

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Thank -you Tellie, I was composing my reply and really couldn't express myself as I wanted. Just that I'm very disappointed with Wallabycreek's statement. My be it was just an intended fuse to degrade this conversation. I am with the group that holds that there are enough rules (laws) to deal with the problems of boats that could be a hazard to navigation. When the law enforcement states they CANNOT remove THOSE vessels with the current laws on the books, then I will be willing to listen to their solutions. More rules/laws are not the answer IMHO.
Ditto, too much government now! Most of the pollution, in the keys, is caused by the land owners attempting to grow what was never intended to exist there. Much pollution from fertilizers, roundup etc. Easy to blame the cruisers as they are a much smaller group who do not have the ear of the politicians.
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Old 14-07-2012, 19:32   #21
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I'm looking at a few boats that are moored. No one has been on them in ninety days. Rarely have I seen the pump out boat service any of these or any boat here. Seems like its hard to say your a restaurant worker and give nothing to the local economy so because your moored using an anchor we are going to impose some different rules. The law is your not allowed to discharge. There are tools in place to enforce this. Why do we need another law. Ohhhh they aren't rich and don't do as well as us so lets degrade their position as working class people.
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Old 15-07-2012, 06:15   #22
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Re: new anchoring regs in fl keys up for public comment

Mooring in Monroe County is being looked at but when something happens and what we end up with is still in the air. I'm for more of it...mooring that is...Key West gets it, Marathon get it. Monroe County is 10 to 15 years behind.
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Old 15-07-2012, 06:44   #23
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Re: new anchoring regs in fl keys up for public comment

I have a home in Sarasota, and the boat is kept in Key West. I have been to meetings in both locations. In my humble opinion, the entire driving force is power and money. Local governments are broke, and we all know that all boaters are rich folks!

The Sarasota meetings had an overwhelming and vociferous contingent of NIMBY waterfront condo dwellers; one actually stated that they paid hundreds of thousands of dollars to get "their" view... Why should someone with a boat get it for free?

Similarly, the KW and Monroe meetings had a lot of land dwellers who just didn't want boats interfering with their view... Pollution was only the stick used to pry the rock and hard spot apart
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Old 15-07-2012, 07:19   #24
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Re: new anchoring regs in fl keys up for public comment

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I have a home in Sarasota, and the boat is kept in Key West. I have been to meetings in both locations. In my humble opinion, the entire driving force is power and money. Local governments are broke, and we all know that all boaters are rich folks!

The Sarasota meetings had an overwhelming and vociferous contingent of NIMBY waterfront condo dwellers; one actually stated that they paid hundreds of thousands of dollars to get "their" view... Why should someone with a boat get it for free?

Similarly, the KW and Monroe meetings had a lot of land dwellers who just didn't want boats interfering with their view... Pollution was only the stick used to pry the rock and hard spot apart

Condo owners...There's a special place in Hell for...well never mind. But if I had my druthers I'd rather see twice as many so called derelict boats as I would see yet another ugly azzed, view obstructing, sewage creating, Nitrate saturated water run off, condo built on the water. Especially in the Keys.
Interesting word "Derelict" there is the maritime definition "property which has been abandoned and deserted at sea by those who were in charge without any hope of recovering it"
Then there is the non maritime definition " Abandonment of property, then referred to as a 'derelict'

Do you have any idea of how many thousands of derelict condos there are in Miami alone much less the Keys? I'd be willing to accept a compromize. Lets clear out and destroy all so called derelict boats as soon as we are willing to tear down all the derelict condos abandoned by speculators and those condo comandos that bought more than they can afford or can't keep up with their monthly maintenace payments. We can pass the cost of removing the boats on to the locals and we can pass the costs of removing the condos on to the remaining residents of said aberrations.
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Old 15-07-2012, 07:23   #25
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Re: new anchoring regs in fl keys up for public comment

My major concern with this proposed ordinance is that the proof of pumpout requirement will be unenforcable without some sort of registration and tracking process for boats entering the Florida keys. So are we now going to set a precident that will require us to register our boats with some unknown and undefined agency every time we cross a county line in Florida. How are they going to prove I just didn't go out beyond 3 miles and pump out if they're not tracking each and every boat. Who is going to pay the trackers? Will it be funded by user fees? This ordinace seems like a slippery slope to me.
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Old 15-07-2012, 07:32   #26
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Re: new anchoring regs in fl keys up for public comment

Cap geo hit it on the head, and those 'condo commandos' are driving the situation, and will, if the boat people don't get organized. Get organized and lobby. Might be worth contacting boating orgs ex BoatUS etc.


Cap bill, it's not that difficult, unfortunately. Simple receipts given at pumpout, ergo little squares of printed paper... you show your pumpout receipt when asked.
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Old 15-07-2012, 07:37   #27
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Re: new anchoring regs in fl keys up for public comment

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Originally Posted by Tellie View Post
Condo owners...There's a special place in Hell for...well never mind. But if I had my druthers I'd rather see twice as many so called derelict boats as I would see yet another ugly azzed, view obstructing, sewage creating, Nitrate saturated water run off, condo built on the water. Especially in the Keys.
Interesting word "Derelict" there is the maritime definition "property which has been abandoned and deserted at sea by those who were in charge without any hope of recovering it"
Then there is the non maritime definition " Abandonment of property, then referred to as a 'derelict'

Do you have any idea of how many thousands of derelict condos there are in Miami alone much less the Keys? I'd be willing to accept a compromize. Lets clear out and destroy all so called derelict boats as soon as we are willing to tear down all the derelict condos abandoned by speculators and those condo comandos that bought more than they can afford or can't keep up with their monthly maintenace payments. We can pass the cost of removing the boats on to the locals and we can pass the costs of removing the condos on to the remaining residents of said aberrations.
Ditto again Tellie. The real answer is for all of the boaters to set up a fund so that we can be on an equal playing field in deciding which politicians to pay off. Always remember, It is always about the money, and they have more than we do.
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Old 15-07-2012, 08:00   #28
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Re: new anchoring regs in fl keys up for public comment

[QUOTE=Tellie;990556]
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Originally Posted by rognvald View Post
A person who moves their boat from point A to point B with reasonable regularity with the intent of exploration, enjoyment of new and old places and the pride of commanding a well-found vessel with skill and competence. This does not include the terminally harborbound Captain No Go's, the around the bay daysailors and the aforementioned derelict boats/humanoids who turn a beautiful anchorage into a degenerate homeless encampment.[/QUOTE
My point was more that definitions of whom is what is relative. There are some people in Miami who believe all sailboats well founded or not fit your last sentence and make their displeasure known on a constant bases to the local authorities. If we want to create more rules for some we must be willing to accept the rules others would like to place on us.

Florida law is already very clear about what is a live-aboard. A live-aboard anchors, moors or docks their boat and never cruises. If your boat leaves your anchorage/mooring and comes back, you are a cruiser, not a live-aboard. There are no shades of gray in Florida. Legally there is no such thing as a "serious" cruiser. There is live-aboard, who uses his or her boat ONLY as a home, and cruisers, who at least occasionally move their boat.
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Old 15-07-2012, 08:03   #29
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Re: new anchoring regs in fl keys up for public comment

[QUOTE=Rakuflames;991103]
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Florida law is already very clear about what is a live-aboard. A live-aboard anchors, moors or docks their boat and never cruises. If your boat leaves your anchorage/mooring and comes back, you are a cruiser, not a live-aboard. There are no shades of gray in Florida. Legally there is no such thing as a "serious" cruiser. There is live-aboard, who uses his or her boat ONLY as a home, and cruisers, who at least occasionally move their boat.

PS what I just posted has been agreed to by the Florida State Supreme Court. It IS what Florida law says. People on shore who complain but don't know the rules might as well complain that you breathe too much air. One of the big gripes of the "anti-live aboards" is that live-aboards don't pay any taxes to help support the state. Well, they don't have to like that, but live-aboard laws in Florida are very clear.
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Old 15-07-2012, 10:20   #30
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Re: new anchoring regs in fl keys up for public comment

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Cap geo hit it on the head, and those 'condo commandos' are driving the situation, and will, if the boat people don't get organized. Get organized and lobby. Might be worth contacting boating orgs ex BoatUS etc.


Cap bill, it's not that difficult, unfortunately. Simple receipts given at pumpout, ergo little squares of printed paper... you show your pumpout receipt when asked.
It would seem to be that simple, but I'd bet it won't end up that way. If you look at the whereas clauses you'll note that the ultimate desire is to set up a county wide pump out program for "Free" which will require a sticker system and county registration.

The ordinance itself makes only a passing reference to a registration requirement but enables the county to set up such a registration system. The so called managed anchorages would seem to require some sort of registration system and management agency, but none of this is provided for in the ordinance. A managed system requires someone to manage it. Who? This is not stated in the ordinance. Will each "Managed Anchorage" now acquire a harbor master? If not, how will they know which boats fall under the 10 day requirement? Perhaps the condo commandos will be entrusted with the duty of reporting any boat there longer than 10 days. If the this becomes a county wide mandate at some point will one have to register with some unnamed agency when you cross the county line. If not, then how will they know when the 10 day countdown begins. Once this is enabled in Monroe county why won't other counties impose similar requirements and then will we be required to "check in" everytime we cross a county line? And if only some counties enact such an ordinance will we need to keep track of each county's ordinances? How many stickers will be required to transit Florida? In my experience no one provides stickers for free, so how much will they cost. Will one county honor another county's stickers? If a log entry is the only requirement, what's to stop me from making one up? If I'm willing to violate the existing laws by dumping inside the current limits, why would it bother me to falsify a log entry. Does my personal log now become a legal public document where any inaccuracy becomes a matter for law enforcement?

Don't get me wrong, I would happily use a free or even the current $5 pump out option as it's still cheaper than moving my boat beyond the 3 or 9 mile limits. I just don't see that this ordinance is complete or provides a practical solution.

It would seem to me that the purpose of the legislation now governing mooring field pilot programs was to enable localities to manage anchoring near public mooring fields, not in an entire 140 mile long county. I didn't see anything in the legislation that provided for a "managed anchoring zone" It would seem to me that at the very least the Key Largo Managed Anchoring zone is well beyond the scope of what is permitted by law in that there is no public mooring field anywhere close to it.

As far as the condo commandos are concerned, I paid hundreds of thousands of dollars for my view as well, I just get to change it now and then.
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