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Old 09-04-2008, 13:25   #46
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There is no way they could have forced him to abandon his yacht, he must have made the deccission to leave, however much he now regrets it, the only communication can have been with the chopper as he was out of VHF range of the land.
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Old 10-04-2008, 04:20   #47
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There is no way they could have forced him to abandon his yacht, he must have made the deccission to leave, however much he now regrets it, the only communication can have been with the chopper as he was out of VHF range of the land.
The rescuers cannot force anyone to abandon ship; but they can insist that ALL aboard accept rescue, if any do.
The ship is either untenable or it is not in imminent danger.

This doesn't apply to the rescue of a seriously injured/ill crew member.
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Old 10-04-2008, 07:19   #48
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I reckon it would be pretty hard for a Helo crew to FORCE a captain to leave a vessel - threaten maybe - and perhaps take legal action. Can't see them landing beside the vessel or dropping a winchman with the power to arrest (LOL). However if the captain did not authorise the use of the EPIRB, then the person who turned it on committed an offence (at least under Aussie law). The captain would be within his rights to reject the offer of help. The crew could jump over the side and then be subject to rescue (by either the vessel or any other way e.g. the Helo). I suspect they could be returned to the vessel (in theory) or taken to shore. Funny thing - only the skipper has the authorisation to declare a mayday (i.e turn on the EPIRB) yet anyone can use any part of the radio frequency spectrum to summons help if in imminent danger - however the onus is on the said person to prove that there was "imminent danger" Might be a bit hard if the captain says therte is no danger.
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Old 10-04-2008, 08:23   #49
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Then they would have to board the boat, and drag me off. I wouldn't abandon my boat, because 3 idiots pushed a button. There sure are some crazy rules in life, and this is one of them.


Bingo!

I'd tell the resuce team "I'm fine. But if you and these three want to work something out that doesn't include me fine by me, but I got things to do and places to go"
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Old 10-04-2008, 09:58   #50
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The rescuers cannot force anyone to abandon ship; but they can insist that ALL aboard accept rescue, if any do.
The ship is either untenable or it is not in imminent danger.

This doesn't apply to the rescue of a seriously injured/ill crew member.
I was going to query this before....I guess the "rule" is to prevent crew simply requesting lifts home from the SAR services when things become uncomfortable........

FWIW, it could be argued that the ship is untenable with the mutinous crew aboard - but as soon as they are off, then the ship (and skipper) no longer has a problem.........and therefore no need for the Skipper to evacuate?

Which maybe leads on to a rather old fashioned way of dealing with Mutineers - hang a couple from the Yard Arm (Mizzen Mast?!) "pour encourager les autres" ......on the basis it is in the best survival interests of everyone else.

Probably need a good lawyer once ashore though
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Old 10-04-2008, 12:19   #51
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Is this thread really a Star Trek quiz? You know, the old "The Captain's mad, Spock, let's get the Doctor to declare him unfit so we aren't committing mutiny" routine?

I can't see a helo crew doing much of anything to force anything, their priority is going to be keeping clear of the rigging so they don't splash down, keeping ahead of the fuel load, and anything else will be left to the courts afterwards. I would hate to be the prosecutor who had to take up that case. Let's see, the civilian unlicensed owner-operator of the boat (captain is such a loaded word) is responsible for everything that happens on it, except, his defense is that the other guys outnumbered him three to one, took physical possession of the EPRIB, and threatened him with bodily harm because they were so terrified they would die unless they were taken off the boat. So that owner-operator, under duress, allowed the evacuation and then returned to his normal duties driving the bus, refusing an offer of assistance. Hmmm....Oh yeah, that's gonna play well in the press. I think we call it a "lose-lose situation" for the prosecution.

Unless your helos have that "beaming" technology, where they can just snatch people off boats? Or doesn't that work outside the Bermuda Triangle?
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Old 10-04-2008, 14:21   #52
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As a case in point, read this account of the "rescue" of two panicky crew and the reluctant owner of the 32' Westsail, Satori, during the Halloween, 1991 storm off the NE US coast. Events seem to have conspired against the owner, who wanted to sail on.

With no one aboard, the boat eventually sailed itself onto the beach at Assateague Island, MD, and was recovered and returned to cruising by the owner.

SATORI and the Perfect Storm
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Old 10-04-2008, 17:27   #53
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...... Let's see, the civilian unlicensed owner-operator of the boat (captain is such a loaded word) is responsible for everything that happens on it, except, his defense is that the other guys outnumbered him three to one, took physical possession of the EPRIB, and threatened him with bodily harm because they were so terrified they would die unless they were taken off the boat. So that owner-operator, under duress, allowed the evacuation and then returned to his normal duties driving the bus, refusing an offer of assistance. ......
At the risk of going further off topic - lets factor in the fact the crew waited until said civilian unlicensed owner-operator (or loaded captain) was asleep before taking possession of the EPIRB, so was one of them now technically in charge of the vessel while the old fella is sleeping and made a command decision to activate it.

I can the various legal experts (marine, civil, criminal, international, corporate, contract, medical, sports and so on) massing for the spoils of this one....
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Old 10-04-2008, 18:06   #54
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You know we really should call Fox, or Murdoch, and get the reality TV and magazine rights sewn up for that one, and then go out and press the button.<VBG>
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Old 27-05-2008, 19:12   #55
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My stepson in Kiwiland sent me this piece from the New Zealand Herald.


On the face of it, it looks as if the crew panicked a bit, but the vessel wasn't as well-maintained as it might have been. Most revealing comment may the chopper pilot who thought that with good seamanship all would have been well.
This yacht referred to in the original post was seen yesterday still adrift, apparently all intact, a couple of hundred miles off northern NZ by a NZ air force Orion while on a routine patrol.

Seems, like many such cases, it had plenty of seamanship even without a crew.
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Old 28-05-2008, 01:12   #56
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Only only afloat but looking at the photos, ready just to up sails and carry on. Main still nicely flaked on the boom, liftrings still sitting on the pushpit.

Yeap, another good reason to remember the old adage 'The boat leaves you not the other way around'.
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Old 12-10-2008, 23:06   #57
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Abandoned boat still afloat - 11 Oct 2008 - NZ Herald: New Zealand National news
A yacht abandoned off Northland eight months ago when its crew mutinied is still floating around the Pacific. The 7.9m yacht Air Apparent was discovered south of Norfolk Island by a French navy patrol ship last week. The Air Apparent was abandoned in bad weather off the Kaipara coast on March 25.

Still bobing around out there
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Old 13-10-2008, 00:31   #58
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The word is someones gone out to salvage it as she's still in good shape.
More news as it comes to hand.
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Old 15-10-2008, 13:10   #59
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Crazy story!

The chopper guys would have been too busy rescuing the three of them out of the water right after I found out they had pushed that button to bother trying to get me off the boat!
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Old 15-10-2008, 13:47   #60
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Rules on mutiny?

What are the rules on mutiny?
Suppose my wife (not a sailor) and perhaps a friend on board become histerical and want to abandon ship (rough waters, international waters, or US waters), and take my young kid with her on the life raft/dinghy. Something I believe endangers His life.

Would I be justified to knock unconcious her friend, beat her into summission, tie both of them up, and continue the trip, and upon arriving land press charges against her for attempted murder, endangering the ship, child endangerment, mutiny? Do I have to say the magic words? "I am putting you under citizen's arrest" while I tie her up?

Or will I just be getting in trouble?

I read somewhere that the captain of a ship is a de-facto peace officer with arrest powers. Is this truly the case?

Thanks,
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