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04-11-2010, 13:59
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#1
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Marine Service Provider
Join Date: May 2007
Location: St. Simons Island, Ga.
Boat: Hunter Legend 37.5 1993
Posts: 240
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MSD Boarding in Florida
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Eat Well. Savor Life.
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04-11-2010, 14:16
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#2
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Punta Gorda, Fl
Boat: Endeavourcat Sailcat 44
Posts: 3,168
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It would seem that things have improved substantially in the last 39 years in the Volusia county sheriff's department. They searched my car "looking" for drugs while holding several of us in "custody" in 1971. They didn't find anything, but stole a couple of hundred dollars worth of scuba gear out of my trunk and that was when a couple of hundred dollars was real money. I guess he should count himself lucky he only got a ticket and didn't get robbed. Since that time I have made it a point never to spend a dime in that county. Even when they robbed me they only threatened us with large flash lights, they never pulled their guns.
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04-11-2010, 14:54
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#3
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Toronto
Boat: CS36Merlin, "La Belle Aurore"
Posts: 7,557
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This section on the ICW is well known for this type of behavior. I was boarded while underway a couple of years ago. No guns drawn though.
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Rick I
Toronto in summer, Bahamas in winter.
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04-11-2010, 15:01
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#4
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cruiser
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,167
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Thank god I live in Canada , where no such boarding is allowed, without a search warrant.I wouldn't even open my metal hatches for them. They lock like the doors of a vault.
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04-11-2010, 15:06
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#5
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Kentucky, Little River, SC
Boat: Leopard 47 Catamaran
Posts: 97
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Contact a good attorney, yes there are a few, and file suit in Federal Court.
Georgia is still part of the United States, I think.
Good cops watching too much television eventually turn bad.
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04-11-2010, 15:07
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#6
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Smithfield Va.
Boat: '72 Tanzer 28 "Her Idea"
Posts: 320
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Maybe if every time these clowns pulled uhhh...stuff like that and the victim screams bloody murder to mayor/governor/representative, etc..eventually they would get the bloody point...
But Volusia County? Didn't lose anything there.
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1972 Tanzer 28 "Her Idea"
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04-11-2010, 15:24
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#7
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Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Denmark (Winter), Helsinki (Summer); Cruising the Baltic Sea this year!
Boat: Cutter-Rigged Moody 54
Posts: 33,750
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The head of the Volusia County Government is a guy named Frank Bruno, Jr. See:
Volusia County Council/ County Manager
His e-mail address is fbruno@co.volusia.fl.us
I have already sent him a copy of the article together with a piece of my mind. Whoever takes this kind of stuff lying down deserves what he gets.
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04-11-2010, 15:34
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#8
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Marine Service Provider
Join Date: May 2007
Location: St. Simons Island, Ga.
Boat: Hunter Legend 37.5 1993
Posts: 240
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Thanks, Dockhand, for the email info. I too email Mr. Bruno.
__________________
Eat Well. Savor Life.
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05-11-2010, 06:52
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#9
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Florida
Boat: Hunter 49
Posts: 13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jim767
Contact a good attorney, yes there are a few, and file suit in Federal Court.
Georgia is still part of the United States, I think.
Good cops watching too much television eventually turn bad.
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Not sure if that would be worth the effort although I agree with the sentiment. It is Florida however, not Georgia.
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05-11-2010, 07:17
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#10
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: A real life Zombie from FL
Boat: Gulfstar 53 - Osiris
Posts: 5,416
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The actions and response by the "Information Officer" are both typical and quite historical in nature. No person in an "official capacity" is about to admit inappropriate or illegal activities by another "official." Just isn't going to happen. It will all break down to "he said, they said" arguments and unfortunately law officers are legally recognized "experts." So refuting their version of the incident is a very expensive process.
- - That said there are stories of "jack-booted" police officers taking out their "human frustrations" on innocent bystanders. Always has been, always will be. Being in the wrong place at the wrong time was this poor fellows mistake. Other than making the incident known to the press and then hastily leaving the area, never to return is about the only option for redress.
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05-11-2010, 07:53
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#11
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Land O Lakes, FL
Boat: Samson C Ranger - "Tin Cup" & Samson C-Farer - "Sam McGee"
Posts: 159
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Quote:
Originally Posted by osirissail
The actions and response by the "Information Officer" are both typical and quite historical in nature. No person in an "official capacity" is about to admit inappropriate or illegal activities by another "official." Just isn't going to happen. It will all break down to "he said, they said" arguments and unfortunately law officers are legally recognized "experts." So refuting their version of the incident is a very expensive process.
- - That said there are stories of "jack-booted" police officers taking out their "human frustrations" on innocent bystanders. Always has been, always will be. Being in the wrong place at the wrong time was this poor fellows mistake. Other than making the incident known to the press and then hastily leaving the area, never to return is about the only option for redress.
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I think that a concerted effort by several members to email every business within 25 miles of the location that has anything to do with the boating industry, specifically those that see income from cruisers as well as the local boating public would probably go a long way towards getting the facts out there.
Now I don't have all the email addresses, sadly not even the time to gather them, but if a list was produced that could easily be used to CC an email used by individual members, I would gladly spend the time to let the business owners know my feelings.
It will be the business owners who gets the sheriff's attention. Especially if they get a couple of hundred emails advising them that they are about to lose business based on the actions of the marine unit responsible.
In fact that is the method that should be employed in any instance where local government is abusing the cruising community.
It is individuals who are usually responsible for complaints regarding anchoring etc..
Rarely it is the businesses that get money from cruisers and boaters that complain, unless you are beating that business out of money.
The sheriffs and most local law enforcement will listen to a number of business owners complaining about overzealous methods rather than a few individuals.
After all the sheriffs are politicians, they have to get re-elected. You rarely see someone re-elected who had previously made the business community mad.
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SmallYachts
Sailors, Adventurers & Friends
Our hulls aren't afraid of things that go "bump" in the night!
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05-11-2010, 08:02
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#12
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2010
Boat: Hunter Passage 42 - s/v Sensei
Posts: 97
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I don't agree with anything that's been said here. First of all, the PIO (Public Information Officer) from the sheriff's department is entirely correct ... the law is well settled in this regard and, due to the mobility of the watercraft, the officers may board without permission (Carrol v. United States, et sup.). Furthermore, both accounts (from the vessel captain's statements and the PIO's depiction of events) indicate that the crew did not fully comply with the officer's directions. When you consider that historically this could have been a prelude to the destruction of evidence or the arming of an individual, the officer acted prudently by drawing his weapon ... remember -- the crew member started this chain of events by going below and out of sight.
I've had the misfortune to lose two fellow police officers from my department, guys I worked closely with, because they came in contact with an armed felon responding to something that seemed innocent on its face. Unfortunately, unless you've been there you don't realize the potential for harm because "you're not like that." Since this was a 'stranger on stranger' contact (neither the vessel nor its occupants were known to the officers) they have to be prepared for the worst while hoping for the best.
As I've said to my police trainees (I'm certified as a Master Instructor for the State of Indiana in law enforcement training and a graduate of the FBI National Academy), "You treat everybody like a million bucks ... but you always have a plan to kill them (if things go sour)." THAT is the world we live in, not the 'Leave It To Beaver' ideation of the fifties that a lot of civilians, including some here, live in.
Just my two cents .....
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Every day is a holiday and every meal is a banquet!
Location: Jacksonville, FL
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05-11-2010, 08:07
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#13
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: VA, boat: Deale, MD
Boat: 1981 Nor'sea 27
Posts: 1,414
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All I can say is, Wow!
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Daniel - Rhapsody Blog,
“A sailor’s joys are as simple as a child’s.” — Bernard Moitessier
"I don't need therapy, I just need my boat"
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05-11-2010, 08:08
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#14
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Long Range Cruiser
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Australian living on "Sea Life" currently in England.
Boat: Beneteau 393 "Sea Life"
Posts: 12,822
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You folks get so heated up over a little pile of poop.
I would like to hear the other side of the story too
In many countires if you get a fine and don't like it then it can be taken to court.
This i would do.
If its 'normal' for cops on poo patrol to do boardings with weapons flashing about then I think you voted in the wrong local government / sherrif etc.
Did the crew on the wheel have long hair and a peace symbol on his Tshirt? Were you playing Jummmmi Hendrix?
Most likely the yacht crew didn't recognise the boat and did some manouver that looked to the police like somone avoiding their voiding responsabilites.
Even add to it the fact it was coming from offshore your Dept of Homeland (whatever) prolly spotted them on the big radar and tipped the coppers off.... "Suspicious vessel entering USA waters...."
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05-11-2010, 08:15
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#15
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Marine Service Provider
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Eastern Shore, MD
Boat: Camper Nicholson 44 Ketch
Posts: 2,059
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All said and good, but to act in a manner (boarding without permission, weapons drawn) that invites conflict, for a random environmental inspection is just not justified. If they had a tip of some illegal activities, then perhaps. What if there were children on the boat?
Chris
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