More problems in Mexico

[DeepFrz]

You know some of you guys say we are all entitled to an opinion and then you put that opinion down trying to belittle the poster. Why is that. Why do you always feel you need to continuously defend your position and in doing so try to make the person on the other side of the discussion out to be "fear monger" or "afraid", "hiding in gated communities" etc? What is it that you are lacking in yourself that causes you to do this? I have noticed this to be a trait in US politics, having crept across the border unfortunately. Is that where it comes from? You NEED to win so badly that you can't just state your piece and leave it be? Anyway, bye now. This thread is going on ignore.

[Cap Erict3]

Originally Posted by PortClydeMe

No. Do you?

My points are very cogent, with US State Dept. warnings to back them up.

Any trouble reading, or conceptualizing?

Have a nice day.

I don't have much trouble with the written word nor do I have trouble spotting a trend toward disagreement with topics at hand.

And yes. I had a pleasant day sailing.




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Looking for another pretty place to work on the boat.

[mitiempo]

Originally Posted by PortClydeMe

“The customer is always right.”

The customer isn't always right, but he or she does have the right to be wrong.

I think the State Dept could have a bit longer list of problem areas if they warned of issues within US borders.

There are problems in every country which some are blind to.

[PortClydeMe]

Originally Posted by Cap Erict3

I don't have much trouble with the written word nor do I have trouble spotting a trend toward disagreement with topics at hand.

And yes. I had a pleasant day sailing.




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Looking for another pretty place to work on the boat.

Great. Happy to hear that. "kanpai!"

May gentle seas roll up to meet you and fair winds be always at your back.

[PortClydeMe]

Originally Posted by mitiempo

The customer isn't always right, but he or she does have the right to be wrong.

I think the State Dept could have a bit longer list of problem areas if they warned of issues within US borders.

There are many business models. Some work well, some don't.

[dpddj]

Holy Crap! For a second there I thought I had logged onto Sailing Anarchy, which, BTW, I have been to only once and decided the rancor there did not fit my outlook on life.

I could relay my rip offs when in Playa del Carma and the Federales with M16's, but I won't.

Lighten up, folks. Life is too short.

[TJ D]

Port Clyde- you're really pretty mean and rude to folks here. There is a point and counterpoint to whether or not it's a good idea to sail to Mexico, and I can understand completely why someone would look at the situation there and decide that it's not for them. However, treating everyone who makes a choice different than yours as if they're a misinformed idiot is not a very civil way to address people. You might find it interesting that many of the people you are dismissing here are currently in Mexico, or have recently been there for an extended period, thus have direct experience, while you have apparently not been there in years.

Now, I've had 4 different boats, a couple of them for multi-year stays down in Mexico, I've lived there part-time since 2002, and just left in early 2014 to pursue some other cruising. So, I feel qualified to speak to the topic.

First, to the point of the state department's Mexico warnings. These are for specific states and areas. They do not now, nor have they ever, encompassed the whole country.

Sinaloa, and some of the southern areas are mentioned specifically, among other inland places not relevant to us. The main part of the Pacific cruising grounds are not mentioned. There are many, many folks cruising there without any problems. I've done the same for years. Are there areas that I'd avoid? Sure, of course.

Has Mexico become more dangerous in the last 10 years? Yes, it absolutely has. Some of what is happening there is just horrifying.

Has it become more dangerous for cruisers? I submit that it has not. Third day told you that he monitors cruisers nets online and via ssb/ham. He's not talking about his experience only. I can tell you that any incident of violence and theft makes the coconut telegraph very quickly. There just isn't much happening against cruisers. That's not to say that no crime has occured, but the rates really are quite low.

For our part, we're much more concerned with security in the Caribbean than in Mexico. And I don't mean Honduras either. I'm talking about the Eastern Carribbean cruising hotspots. There's far more violence and theft there than there is in Mexico, and there are no state department warnings for most of these places. But, we still sail there, and will go down again this winter, fully aware of the risk that we're taking, and we take precautions accordingly. We will avoid most of the chain from Martinique southward, and if we summer over in Trinidad, we'll go straight into a marina. Many would find this to be over-cautious, but it's the right balance for us in light of recent events in the Grenadines and St. Lucia.

So, here's my suggestion. If you think it's too dangerous, DON'T GO! But don't be so damn mean to those who do. There are many, many of us ignorant fools who will happily carry on with our lives in whatever cruising grounds we're in (including Mexico), enjoying every minute of it. Based on your comments here, we probably won't miss you anyway.

TJ

[Terra Nova]

TJ--good post.

[TJ D]

Terra Nova- Thanks. We really enjoyed our time there, and while I usually stay out of it when it gets acrimonious here, but some of what was being said crossed the line for me, time to chime in.

TJ

[darylat8750]

Originally Posted by chebba

I enjoy this discussion every time it comes up. Usually once a year. One side talks about all the trouble and danger and death in Mexico and the other side talks that if you are kind and you don't show your money and stay quiet everything will be alright. Well, for one that has survived a robbery and vicious stabbing while I slept I have a challenge for the later group. I read on mexiconewsdaily.com a couple of day ago a story where a group of cartel guys ambushed a squad of Mexican Federal police and after the ensuing gun fight 7 federales were dead. show me a story like that in the States.

My thoughts also. It has been many years since the Capone gang shot it out with the police. (The Night Chicago Died.) Arguing that Mexico in general is as safe as the US in general seems like a stretch to me. However with a reasonable amount of local knowledge the worst places can be avoided. While in Cancun a couple of years ago I needed some part for my outboard. The little shop by the Ultra Mar terminal didn't have what I needed. They said the distributor would have it but I shouldn't go to that neighborhood. It cost me another ferry ticket to come back the next day so I could avoid sticking my neck out. OK . It was the prudent thing to do. There are places in Mexico I will still go and there are places that it makes sense to avoid. There are places in any big city where on one block you are reasonably safe and a block or two the wrong direction the risk of trouble goes up very quickly. Same in the U.S., England, Canada and most of the rest of the world. Unless I have more local knowledge than I have available I will avoid Venezuela and several other Central and S. American countries.

I will gladly buy equipment from a guy that lives on his boat.

[darylat8750]

ZeeHag. I enjoyed a couple of years in and around Isla Mujeres and I'm glad you are having fun where you are. I really didn't like it when a Chedraui came to the isla. A lot of the small businesses were getting pushed out. Reminds me of small town USA when WallyWorld comes to town.

Sometimes I just can't make out your words. I'm not very good figuring out personalized license plates either.

[Celestialsailor]

Originally Posted by PortClydeMe

I'd respond, yet you already know me so well and can anticipate my retort.

Sail safe on that nice French boat!

I am the OP and only meant the post as an alert to continued problems south of the border. Like most, I use caution down there and people are people and the culture is different than ours. I find experiences in Mexico more intense and extreme in Mexico due IMHO the poverty vs. extreme wealth. It's the same in the US but not as intense. I enjoy that as adventure.
Randy pointed out a few assumptions about you that may be or may not be true. And as Rich stated, it's the reader/members here that make their own opinions through what they read. The facts that I have of which my opinion is made is how you mock people and try to degrade them to a lower level that of yourself, if that is at all possible. Zee can be difficult to understand sometimes. Yet if you read her post as many have over the years, you would understand and even feel some compassion for her. Well...that would be after all your cruising plans and after you actually obtain a sailing vessel.
Obviously, you don't need my approval and the lemon juice you're getting here shows no one so far is looking for yours. In the past, we have had other obnoxious contributors. A few stay and moderate their outlandishness while other fade over the sunset of there armchairs with a would-a should-a could-a resolve.

[Jon Eisberg]

Originally Posted by PortClydeMe

If I’m set on a new Hinckley and I get any sass, or if I think that they are “idiots in any way”, my dollars will sail away, regardless of the fact that only Hinckley makes a Hinckley. Understand? For a $500K plus purchase, the customer better “Be always right”, or the next sound you will hear is “Ring Ring… Hello, Little Harbor, are you free next Monday?”

LMAO!

Little Harbor Yachts, the company Ted Hood founded in 1959, was acquired by The Hinckley Company in 1998, and probably hasn't built a sailboat in almost 15 years...

One would think some blowhard claiming he will be circumnavigating 2 years from now on either a Hinckley crafted in Maine, or a Chinese Little Harbor - in the event he's turned off by Hinckley's 'attitude' - would have figured that out by now...

[Terra Nova]

There appears to be mostly those who've rarely/never been (but want to believe the terror mongers) and those who have traveled extensively in Mexico and spent time living there, and so realize how relatively safe it is, when using intelligent precautions.

My own experience is from decades of traveling there by car, truck, motorcycle, plane, bus, cruise liner and private yacht. And living there for months at a time, both on and off a boat. It is a country of happy people, where you might see poor, happy kids delighted to have just a rock to play with. And a market fisherman supporting his family with some (perhaps) discarded line wrapped around a used beer can, and a panga he hopes to own, outright, one day. And a tiny house he hopes to complete, one day.

[socaldmax]

Originally Posted by SV THIRD DAY

That's a valid point.
I could be a shrill for the Mexican tourism board as a way to sell more cruising gear I guess, heck Obama could be a Kenyan, anything is possible, but those that know me on this and other sites for years would realize that's not the case. But seeing that I cruised full time in Mexico for 4yrs, take month long trips to La Paz in the summer by car down 1000 miles of Baja, have a dealer that I talk to almost daily for orders in Mexico, travel monthly to Mexico and ....gasp...bring my 17yr old daughter with me to have her braces adjusted, I'm not just talking Mexico as safe...I'm living it. (wow was that a run on sentence or what)

What is always interesting about these "is Mexico safe threads" which as one poster pointed out happen about once a year is that most of the negatives come from people who have never been there while the people who have post how much they love it and feel safe there. So who has more credibility on the issue? People that are there now and have been there recently or those that only read about those evil brown people trying to crash the Border in Mexico and are reading State Department Travel alerts?

The great thing about the Cruisers Forum and sites like this is that all sides get to present their view and then the readers get to decide. But since the Baja Ha-ha rally is overflowing with boats traveling down each year...well....I think many are not buying into the fear.

You're welcome to your opinions based on your experience down there.

What you're not welcome to do is claim that other people who don't want to go there have never been there or don't have much experience there.

I've been to MX quite a few times, but nowhere as much as you, I'm sure.

Some very good friends had gone down to MX for 25 or 26 yrs, probably spent 2 -2 1/2 months per yr down there and they loved it and told everyone about how wonderful the people were and how much fun they had visiting their friends down there.

Until they got carjacked by a group of 10 or so guys in black bulletproof vests and all black uniforms and guns on the toll road 7 mi from the border. They truly thought they were going to die for about 30 minutes there. They were towing their toyhauler and got carjacked. They've never been down there since, and neither have I.

I don't need to have it happen to me to realize it could happen to anyone. I know these people and they're awesome to hang out with, they don't tell stories and they don't exaggerate.


Here's a news story about them and a lot of others. You can choose to believe it, or you can choose to ignore it, but don't claim it's not true.

A recent Saturday night attack in downtown Tijuana left 13 drug traffickers dead and eight more wounded. It is part of the growing criminal activity in Tijuana and Baja California, targeting not just drug dealers but innocent U.S. tourists.
Take the case of Pat Weber of Carlsbad and his girlfriend, Lori. They went to Baja to surf. Instead, two armed men in paramilitary uniforms fired into their motor home, robbed the couple and raped Lori.

"I am just thinking, 'What if I don't react? Maybe they will be turned off and will just go,'" said Lori. But it didn't happen and they raped her.

Debra Hall of El Cajon, her husband, Chris, and their two children were pulled over by ten armed men while driving home on the Tijuana toll road.

"They said, 'Put your heads down, we're going to kill you. Put your heads down,'" said Debra.

The men were in uniform, carried 9 mm guns and forced the family into the hills.

"We knew this was really bad, and we said, 'Please leave our kids here, they're just kids,'" said Debra.

Instead, Debra said the men roughed up their 16-year-old son.

"They took him out and shoved him hard into a ditch," said Debra.

The group robbed the family of money, jewelry and their truck -- all the while demanding to know what they did for a living.

"Maybe they thought they were going to get someone they could ransom," said Debra.

There is the growing danger, and 10News has learned that 45 to 50 kidnapping rings are working the Tijuana to Ensenada corridor, earning $6 million a month in ransoms.

What is worse is 13 members of these so-called kidnapping cartels are known to live in Eastlake, National City and San Ysidro.

Mexico is now the No. 1 country in Latin America for kidnappings, surpassing even Colombia, according to reports.

10News obtained a sensitive DEA report and verified its authenticity. It is a disturbingly graphic picture of the violence.

The report said since 2005, one-thousand people have been kidnapped in Mexico, while 43 are known to have died and many have disappeared.

In Tijuana alone, in just the first half of last year, 91 kidnappings were reported -- roughly one victim every other day, according to the report.

Some victims were trapped in cages inside Tijuana homes. In one cage, officials discovered the decaying bodies of two brothers, ages 21 and 16.

"They started preying on Americans and other visitors as they were traveling between Tijuana and Ensenada," said 10News' informant.

The informant has connections on both sides of the border. 10News hid his face for his protection. He told 10News narcotics traffickers are running kidnapping rings with police involvement.

It is a claim backed up by the DEA's report, which names Ensenada police officers known as the "Death Squad," and municipal and state officers called the "Black Commandos." The report said both groups are involved in murders and kidnappings.

"It goes to absolute highest levels," said the informant.

There are other ties to the San Diego region.

Former police officer Victor Magno Escobar Luna, a high-ranking cartel boss nicknamed "The Cop Killer," has just been arrested. His brother, Richard, was killed in Bonita.

A Border Patrol arrest in San Diego revealed a disturbing trend in cartel recruitment.

"These are individuals who have been training in the military. They are well-armed and well-financed," said the informant.

Bodies are often dumped with messages of warnings attached. Others are placed in drums filled with acid and lye, a disintegration method called pozole, a Mexican soup.

"Drugs are a violent business," said Zeidler.

Zeidler can't comment on the report 10News acquired but said the erupting violence is linked to recent arrests of bosses from the Arrellano-Felix cartel.

"There's no defined leadership like 10 years ago. You had Benjamin, you had the brothers running the family business. Being narcotics, you don't have that anymore," said Zeidler.

What's left is a violent fight for power, robberies of tourists and the emergence of kidnappings as a lucrative alternative to running drugs.

Family Details Violent Encounter "It makes me sad for the people who live there," said El Cajon resident Debra Hall.

Debra, her husband, Chris, and their children have always loved Mexico.

"We went down all the time, went for lunch, spent the weekend," said Debra.

Chris Hall was into off-road racing, and for years the family tagged along to Baja events with no problem until last November.

"They were men in masks, with guns drawn," said Chris.

The family was driving north on the toll road between Ensenada. Two cars filled with ten armed uniformed men pulled them over.

"They said, 'Put your heads down, shut up, we're going to kill you. Put your heads down,'" said Debra.

They forced the family into the hills, stole their Ford F250 vehicle and robbed them of everything. The group demanded to know what Chris did for a living. The Halls believed they were going to be kidnapped or murdered.

"They put us into a ditch, they covered us up with a sleeping bag," said Debra. "We just told each other we love you, we apologized to the kids, you know, and then they just drove away."

Carjackings, kidnappings and violence are on the rise in Baja, and the Halls said as much as they loved the Baja races, they are never going back.

"It's a beautiful country with phenomenal people who live there, but there are very bad things happening to innocent families, and it's just not worth it," said Debra.

The FBI said last year 26 San Diego county residents were kidnapped for ransom by Baja gangs. That's more than twice the number from the year before.