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Old 25-02-2013, 15:26   #46
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Re: Missing Vessel (Northern California), 4 souls

I have the PON PON sound file on my phone. If anyone is interested.
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Old 25-02-2013, 15:29   #47
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Re: Missing Vessel (Northern California), 4 souls

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Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat View Post
Much as people complain about "Nanny states", the compulsory carrying of an EPIRB could have been invaluable here.
And how would such a compulsory law be policed? At what cost? Applying to what minimum size boat?
And then why an EPIRB? A properly registered DSC radio with an MMSI would be effective to notify in coastal waters.

There are many options available, at low cost, none need to be mandated.

Even in some ideal nanny state scenario it would not prevent misadventure or plain bad luck leading to casualities.
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Old 25-02-2013, 15:32   #48
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Re: Missing Vessel (Northern California), 4 souls

All aircraft must be fitted with an EPIRB and this has been the law/regulation for many years. It helps reduce the time to rescue and the cost of the search.

If this is not a hoax, or even if it is, the coast guard will search until there is no more hope of finding the people alive. They do allow a good margin of time.
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Old 25-02-2013, 15:48   #49
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Re: Missing Vessel (Northern California), 4 souls

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And how would such a compulsory law be policed? At what cost? Applying to what minimum size boat?
And then why an EPIRB? A properly registered DSC radio with an MMSI would be effective to notify in coastal waters.

There are many options available, at low cost, none need to be mandated.

Even in some ideal nanny state scenario it would not prevent misadventure or plain bad luck leading to casualities.
I'm amazed I need to explain this, but:

A VHF doesn't have the range of an EPIRB. This boat was reportedly 60 miles offshore. That could easily have been beyond VHF range.

Also when the boat sinks, the VHF goes with it. The EPIRB stays with the crew. even before the boat has completely sunk, the VHF may have stopped working, if the batteries are underwater.

In Aus, any boat going outside of "Smooth waters" is required to carry an EPIRB. (There are maps explaing what are "smooth waters", but basically outside of harbours and estuaries)

IMO, only in a very few cases would any policing be neccessary. To most responsible people it's common sense.

An EPIRB only costs a couple of hundred dollars.
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Old 25-02-2013, 15:55   #50
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Re: Missing Vessel (Northern California), 4 souls

Actually aircraft are fitted with an ELT, not an EPIRB, An ELT does not have a GPS signal but it is picked up by satellite , Best by the Russian satellites.
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Old 25-02-2013, 16:25   #51
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Re: Missing Vessel (Northern California), 4 souls

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Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat View Post

In Aus, any boat going outside of "Smooth waters" is required to carry an EPIRB. (There are maps explaing what are "smooth waters", but basically outside of harbours and estuaries).
Oh dear! How unfortunate.

Is there a definition of "a boat" that corresponds to this law? Or does an ardent windsurfer have to carry an EPIRB?
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Old 25-02-2013, 17:00   #52
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Re: Missing Vessel (Northern California), 4 souls

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Oh dear! How unfortunate.

Is there a definition of "a boat" that corresponds to this law? Or does an ardent windsurfer have to carry an EPIRB?
Like I said, for most responsible people it's common sense.
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Old 25-02-2013, 17:15   #53
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Re: Missing Vessel (Northern California), 4 souls

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Originally Posted by cuthbert View Post
Oh dear! How unfortunate.

Is there a definition of "a boat" that corresponds to this law? Or does an ardent windsurfer have to carry an EPIRB?
Pretty much anything that floats and carries people. In Vic the limit is 2 nm offshore. Inside that an EPIRB is not required, outside that an EPIRB is required on PWCs (JetSkis), paddleboards, "beach-launched sailing vessels", power boats, and sailing yachts. About the only exception is tenders to another vessel, I guess they figure you can't be too far from the mother vessel that has the EPIRB.
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Old 25-02-2013, 17:28   #54
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Re: Missing Vessel (Northern California), 4 souls

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Originally Posted by cuthbert View Post
And how would such a compulsory law be policed? At what cost? Applying to what minimum size boat?
And then why an EPIRB? A properly registered DSC radio with an MMSI would be effective to notify in coastal waters.

There are many options available, at low cost, none need to be mandated.

Even in some ideal nanny state scenario it would not prevent misadventure or plain bad luck leading to casualities.
It would be perfectly simple. Right now there is a list of minimum safety equipment enforced by the Coastguard. An EPIRB would be added to the list. The enforcement would then be exactly the same as that for items currently on the list.

However, I agree that a DSC radio is quite effective. If the boat in question had sent a full DSC emergency signal at the start, the Coastguard would immediately have :

Boat's name and description
Exact position
All the other data in the MMSI reg : next of kin, phone numbers, etc.

and (quite importantly) the sender would have an acknowledgement via DSC, knowing help is on the way.
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Old 25-02-2013, 17:36   #55
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Re: Missing Vessel (Northern California), 4 souls

A very high percentage of EPIRB signals are false alerts. If everyone was required to have one popular boating areas would be a mess of false alarms. As it is, I don't think a summer goes by when I don't hear the CG calling around during the day trying to locate somebody with an EPIRB running, and that's only when I'm listening in to the VHF. Same with DSC alerts--most are false alarms.
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Old 25-02-2013, 17:42   #56
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Re: Missing Vessel (Northern California), 4 souls

I guess it's just now getting dark out there. That will be the end of the search I'd think. Probably be a CG update soon.
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Old 25-02-2013, 17:45   #57
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Re: Missing Vessel (Northern California), 4 souls

Nautical twilight ends at 1855 tonight. That's a hair over two hours from now. Still keeping my fingers crossed.
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Old 25-02-2013, 17:59   #58
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I have the PON PON sound file on my phone. If anyone is interested.
Please... it's "pan pan".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pan-pan
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Old 25-02-2013, 18:00   #59
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Re: Missing Vessel (Northern California), 4 souls

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A very high percentage of EPIRB signals are false alerts. If everyone was required to have one popular boating areas would be a mess of false alarms. As it is, I don't think a summer goes by when I don't hear the CG calling around during the day trying to locate somebody with an EPIRB running, and that's only when I'm listening in to the VHF. Same with DSC alerts--most are false alarms.
If EPIRBs are required to be properly registered, (as in Aus) that greatly reduces the false alarms. In the case of an accidental activation, there are people to contact to verify whether the alarm is likely to be false or real.

There are also fines for false activation.
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Old 25-02-2013, 18:01   #60
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Re: Missing Vessel (Northern California), 4 souls

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Yes. And if the boat is sinking, "mayday mayday".
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