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Old 26-02-2013, 16:52   #136
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Re: Missing Vessel (Northern California), 4 souls

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Originally Posted by EveningTide View Post
I sail along the California Coast not too far from where this event is taking place. I wondered how far from shore my DSC VHF could be used to contact CG if I needed help. I did some offshore experimenting. I didn't transmit, just listened. I stopped hearing CG when 20 miles offshore although I could hear Weather Radio at greater distances. Down offshore from Monterey Bay (20 miles offshore) I could hear VTS (Traffic Service) but not Weather Radio and didn't hear CG (maybe just didn't listen at the right time.) I also didn't hear much when offshore from the Big Sur Coast (south of Monterey Bay). I know VHF is line-of-sight and I assumed CG would have very high antennas but the ranges where I could receive them makes me wonder. Their transmitters probably have more power than mine so if I can't hear them they most likely can't hear me. Conclusion- 65 miles offshore is a long ways for VHF communication. I bought a SPOT because I thought DSC mayday wouldn't cover as far offshore as I wanted to sail.
Exactly why the new EPIRB's are way to go.

They do work as demonstrated by many actual successful rescues in the Southern Ocean off Australia and NZ. I am also sure the new ones with GPS are also saying the rescue organisations a lot of money.
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Old 26-02-2013, 17:20   #137
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Re: Missing Vessel (Northern California), 4 souls

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This smacks of a hoax. I hope it is.
Congrats. Post No 6, first to stick your neck out but looks as though you were bang on..
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Old 26-02-2013, 17:48   #138
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Re: Missing Vessel (Northern California), 4 souls

I don't care if it is supposed to be pronounced "PON PON" or "PAN PAN" or whatever. I know the Coast Guard in the US, which is where I sail, pronounces it PON PON.

Since that is the agency I'm trying to get to come save my butt, I'll pronounce it the way I hear them say it. I'll save the discussion on word origin and naval english for the helicopter ride back to shore.

Hell, I'll say "purple elephants, purple elephants" if that's how I get a helicopter to pull my crew out of the water.
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Old 26-02-2013, 17:56   #139
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Originally Posted by LJH View Post

Certainly wasn't when I got my licence. Then not everyone uses the Queen's English.

Pan Pan (urgency) (pronounced /ˈpæn ˈpæn/) (/æ/ short "a" in "bad")

Must be time to QSY!

I followed Mark's link, listened several times, and think the above is correct. The pronunciation is somewheres east of Suez: poan poan ... not plain ol' pon pon, like pom pom, and still thicker and richer than pan pan. Oui?
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Old 26-02-2013, 17:57   #140
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Re: Missing Vessel (Northern California), 4 souls

Is anyone seriously suggesting that a rescue agency, anywhere in the world, would not respond to a call if the pronunciation of the urgency call was PAN-PAN instead of POHN-POHN or whatever variation you can think of??

IMO, this is a ridiculous discussion.

Cheers,

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Old 26-02-2013, 18:00   #141
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Re: Missing Vessel (Northern California), 4 souls

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As Bob (Sand Crab) mentioned, our local TV news in Sacramento (80 miles from SF), reported it is now believed to be a hoax. I'm relieved that young kids aren't in a compromised situation, but a bit steamed that it now might be a hoax.
There is still hope they will catch this xxxxxx (insert your own profanity). I was in New York Harbor a number of years ago and heard a couple of teens try and pull a hoax saying they were sinking by the Statue of Liberty. Coast Guard and NYPD triangulated their position in Brooklyn across the harbor. I smiled as I heard them get caught in the act on the VHF. Wish I could know what the ultimate outcome was though.
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Old 26-02-2013, 18:03   #142
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Re: Missing Vessel (Northern California), 4 souls

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Terrible story.

I know its so trendy for people to think small boats are as seaworthy as bigger boats but 29 feet LOA 65nms off the coast in winter.

Sea Temp San Fransisco: 50.5
(02/25/2013 10:48 UTC)
I doubt the size of the boat had much to do with the bad keel bolts or rotten thru hulk hoses. would have been cheaper to fix though.

Not everyone wants a Bendy-Toy, I mean that french thing.
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Old 26-02-2013, 18:04   #143
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Re: Missing Vessel (Northern California), 4 souls

Every time I've heard a Pon Pon, the vessel in distress called in a mayday.

Then the COAST GUARD sent out a Pon Pon (or Pan Pan or whatever) to the vessels in the area, requesting assistance.

I haven't heard a vessel in distress issue a Pon Pon. It has always been a mayday. So far.

Edit to add: I bet the next person who has read this discussion and has to request assistance either pronounces it Pon Pon... or just skips straight to mayday :-)
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Old 26-02-2013, 18:22   #144
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Re: Missing Vessel (Northern California), 4 souls

a vessel would issue a pan pan call if they are in danger, but not distress. More to let other vessels nearby know they may not be able to maneuver or stand a proper watch if all hands are performing repairs or patching a leak.

It's really more of a keeps you eyes open either the CG alerting vessels to look for a vessel in distress or an individual vessel warning other.

We sailed thru heavy squalls for several hours one night between Niue and Tonga a few years ago. At least 2 other yachts were nearby so I issue a call to advise our speed and position as it wasn't really possible to see anything in the conditions. worst lightening I had every experienced.

winds were never too high, maybe 35 knots. another boat radioed back to say they had taken down all sails and were motoring (downwind) and they were below not attempting to keep a watch.

The other boat sailed about 60 miles off course that night because the husband was tired and sleeping and the wife hadn't figured out how to adjust the windvane yet on the cruise from San Diego!
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Old 26-02-2013, 18:26   #145
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Re: Missing Vessel (Northern California), 4 souls

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Originally Posted by Dexterbase View Post
I haven't heard a vessel in distress issue a Pon Pon. It has always been a mayday. So far.
Pan Pan isn't distress. It's urgency. Think of Pan Pan the same as giving five blasts on the whistle. If you're in the process of recovering an MOB in the middle of a race course, a Pan Pan would be appropriate just to let other vessels know to stand by and stay clear.

(Securite is more like notifying all vessels that there's a deadhead in the middle of the channel.)
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Old 26-02-2013, 18:28   #146
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Re: Missing Vessel (Northern California), 4 souls

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(...) 65 miles offshore is a long ways for VHF communication. I bought a SPOT because I thought DSC mayday wouldn't cover as far offshore as I wanted to sail.
The CG has multiple transmitters at multiple sites. CG Station San Francisco is barely readable at Pillar Point (the Pacific Coast 20 miles south of the Golden Gate) when they are calling vessels inside the S.F. Bay, but they come booming in when they are calling vessels along the coastline. So I'm not sure you can determine if you are readable to them just because they are unreadable or weak when they aren't calling someone in your area.

The fact that I can rarely hear their transmissions to boats in the S.F. Bay from Half Moon Bay is a blessing: there's continual chatter in the S.F. Bay with racers who have forgotten how to heave-to or drop an anchor to stop their wayward boats. :-(

I'd trust an EPIRB, PLB (offshore) or DSC radio far more than I'd trust a Spot in an emergency. In my location, if my vessel was sinking, I'd probably be assisted first by a fishing vessel (those guys are great!) and DSC followed up by an immediate voice call on 16 would get help long before a Spot could summon assistance. That said, I've got a Spot too so my family can follow my voyages.
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Old 26-02-2013, 18:29   #147
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Re: Missing Vessel (Northern California), 4 souls

As always Bash nailed it.
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Old 26-02-2013, 18:37   #148
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Re: Missing Vessel (Northern California), 4 souls

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Pan Pan isn't distress. It's urgency. Think of Pan Pan the same as giving five blasts on the whistle. If you're in the process of recovering an MOB in the middle of a race course, a Pan Pan would be appropriate just to let other vessels know to stand by and stay clear.
"Pan" means roughly in French: "a mechanical breakdown of any kind." It is spoken twice because it is a single syllable. For a man overboard, I'd simply call it that on the radio. And then revert to Mayday if I couldn't immediately affect a recovery. Here anyway, hypothermia is going to make any immersion over a few minutes a life threatening situation (assuming they don't have a cardiac arrest as soon as they hit the water or gasp water before they came to the surface).

The accepted horn signal for a MOB is three long horns: the Morse code letter "O". The "O" flag has the same meaning.
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Old 26-02-2013, 18:44   #149
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Re: Missing Vessel (Northern California), 4 souls

I actually made a Pan-Pan call once that I can remember. We were near the end of an offshore run from North Carolina down to Puerto Rico and had been in a pretty bad offshore gale, had lost our steering (repaired but iffy) and had broken the forestay toggle at the bottom where it was unreachable because it was up inside the roller furler (don't like that design), so the mast was being held up with docklines tied to the forestay and lead back to winches. It was blowing in the 30s and we were trying to get into San Juan under nothing but a triple-reefed main on a small cat. That was as much sail as I dared set with the wobbly mast, but we were still making 8 knots or so, but I couldn't point up very high. So I called a Pan-Pan just in case we ended up losing our rig and VHF antenna before we got in. The CG picked it up pretty far out, 30 miles or so I think, and when we got close they sent out a big hard-bottom inflatable to escort us in.
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Old 26-02-2013, 18:48   #150
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Epirb necessary if one wishes to be rescued.

We're drowning in laws, and yet live in notably lawless times.

My plans are to have a boat as unsinkable as I can make it, and fight hard to keep it that way. Relying on a radio or a glorified orange wading pool seems like misplaced priorities, and being forced into such a mindset is not wise or fair.

Let's see what comes of this before we get stuck into a good old knock down drag 'em out fight.....I hope it is a hoax and that the hoaxer gets caught and reamed under existing laws. No more please. And if it's for real, then may The Lord have grace and mercy on them.

"We're drowning in laws, and yet live in notably lawless times."

For a continent that spent most of the 18th , 19th and the early parts of the 20th mired in conflict , I respectfully think many would completely disagree.

Given crime rates have fallen year or year in the past ten years in the US , the stats there don't agree either.


I applaud people with the mindset to defy the sea by building a " better" boat , a bit like the titanic. The sea always finds a way to laugh at you. When that happens you need friends. An Epirb is merely a way of asking a friends help in time of need.

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