Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 07-07-2010, 20:27   #61
CF Adviser
Moderator Emeritus
 
TaoJones's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Montrose, Colorado
Posts: 9,850
Quote:
Originally Posted by sobriyah View Post
My understanding is this incident happened on the French side of the lagoon in St Martin, not Guadeloupe or Martinique, as has been portrayed. Does anyone know for sure?
You are correct, sobriyah. The attack occurred in Simpson Bay, St. Martin - not Martinique. Here's a link to today's 'Lectronic Latitude, with an update:

Latitude 38 - 'Lectronic Latitude

TaoJones
__________________

__________________
"Your vision becomes clear only when you look into your own heart. Who looks outside, dreams; who looks within, awakens."
Carl Gustav Jung (1875-1961)
TaoJones is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2010, 20:57   #62
Senior Cruiser
 
osirissail's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: A real life Zombie from FL
Boat: Gulfstar 53 - Osiris
Posts: 5,416
Images: 2
The attack occurred in the French side of St Martin's lagoon - not Martinique. I have been to St Martin many times and can confirm that it is a dangerous place. Thefts off boats occurs in the dozens during certain periods and then slacks off for awhile. I call it the "hungry lion" syndrome. When the predators are hungry they go out and very democratically steal from every boat they have time to get to. Then everything is quiet and docile until they get hungry again. Either way inside the Lagoon is problematic as boats are easily reached from shore.
- - Here is a quote from the Latitude 38 7Jul update about St. Martin: "For the record, St. Martin/Sint Maarten, which has lots of problems due to poverty, drugs, crime, AIDS and white and blue collar corruption, has a reputation for being a violent place. When we cleared in there two years ago, there was even a poster in the Immigration office of a gang of thugs and the admonition to visitors to be wary."
- - The Dutch officials were extremely adamant about removing as much money as possible from visiting cruisers both inside and outside the lagoon with some of the Caribbean highest fee schedules. The French are not as bad, and the result is that a lot of boats have moved over to the French side which does not have that much room and you end up rather close to the shoreline.
- - Grand Case is also known for thieves swimming out to lighten the load on your waterline. However, currently there are few if any of the islands that can boast of low crime anymore. So extra attention to your boat and your own security needs to be applied. The suggestion to being able to lock large hatches is good and also having motion detectors in the cockpit can give you a few seconds warning. It ain't your grandfather's world anymore so think about security.
__________________

__________________
osirissail is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2010, 22:50   #63
CF Adviser
 
Bash's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: sausalito
Boat: 14 meter sloop
Posts: 7,260
Quote:
Originally Posted by osirissail View Post
The attack occurred in the French side of St Martin's lagoon - not Martinique. I have been to St Martin many times and can confirm that it is a dangerous place. Thefts off boats occurs in the dozens during certain periods and then slacks off for awhile. I call it the "hungry lion" syndrome. When the predators are hungry they go out and very democratically steal from every boat they have time to get to. Then everything is quiet and docile until they get hungry again. Either way inside the Lagoon is problematic as boats are easily reached from shore.
- - Here is a quote from the Latitude 38 7Jul update about St. Martin: "For the record, St. Martin/Sint Maarten, which has lots of problems due to poverty, drugs, crime, AIDS and white and blue collar corruption, has a reputation for being a violent place. When we cleared in there two years ago, there was even a poster in the Immigration office of a gang of thugs and the admonition to visitors to be wary."
- - The Dutch officials were extremely adamant about removing as much money as possible from visiting cruisers both inside and outside the lagoon with some of the Caribbean highest fee schedules. The French are not as bad, and the result is that a lot of boats have moved over to the French side which does not have that much room and you end up rather close to the shoreline.
- - Grand Case is also known for thieves swimming out to lighten the load on your waterline. However, currently there are few if any of the islands that can boast of low crime anymore. So extra attention to your boat and your own security needs to be applied. The suggestion to being able to lock large hatches is good and also having motion detectors in the cockpit can give you a few seconds warning. It ain't your grandfather's world anymore so think about security.
Those are worthy suggestions. A better suggestion might be that cruisers should stay out of St. Martin until the local authorities can make it less dangerous.
__________________
cruising is entirely about showing up--in boat shoes.
Bash is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2010, 23:05   #64
CF Adviser
 
Pelagic's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2007
Boat: Van Helleman Schooner 65ft StarGazer
Posts: 6,889
I agree with Bash.

Living on a resort island in the Philippines that is dependant on tourist money, when security issues drove customers away they did some very effective self policing to remove and even kill the criminal element, so that their customers would return.

Now we have only had one boat pilferage in 9 years and they were caught and turned in by the locals.

Our only power is financial… so boycott and give them an incentive to sort things out.
__________________
Pelagic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2010, 23:44   #65
Registered User
 
beau's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Brisbane Australia
Posts: 757
Images: 1
I have heard that motion senors don't work well because of waves, boat motion etc.
What about infra red sensors, surely they have come down in price. They would be an excellent way of turning on lights, the sound of gunshots, barking dog etc
Has any one used such a system
__________________
beau is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-07-2010, 05:39   #66
Moderator Emeritus
 
GordMay's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Thunder Bay, Ontario - 48-29N x 89-20W
Boat: (Cruiser Living On Dirt)
Posts: 31,579
Images: 240
FWIW: St. Martin is governed* from Guadeloupe.

It’s a commune of Guadeloupe, an overseas territory of France.
__________________
Gord May
"If you didn't have the time or money to do it right in the first place, when will you get the time/$ to fix it?"



GordMay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-07-2010, 06:18   #67
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Antigua
Boat: Oyster 485
Posts: 94
Send a message via Skype™ to sobriyah
Gord - The French side of St Martin may be governed by Guadeloupe but it is a very different place. The border is open and there has been mass immigration into St Martin/Sint Maarten for many years; mainly from latin america, the DR, PR and the USVI, and a significant increase in violent crime.

The marinas are full of superyachts, with all the security they need; their crew let off steam with conspicuous abandon, but cruisers there are vulnerable.

As someone else mentioned; the authorities, at least on the Dutch side, have hiked the entry and anchorage fees to such an extent, they clearly do not want us there any longer. We should oblige them.

If all they want is expensive stink pots, then let them have it. I am sure all the yachting businesses around the lagoon will sit up and take notice when there are no more cruisers
__________________
sobriyah is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-07-2010, 06:36   #68
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 13
I received the email Mike sent out this weekend describing what took place. I assume it is the same as the link posted on this site that I couldnt get to open. I also received the pictures of Mike after the beating. He is lucky to be alive!!

Mike is one of the nicest people I have met since I started working in the marine industry. I am sure if he gets a chance to read this thread he will be thrilled with all the support. I am also sure he will be happy to see that his misfortune is making people think about their own security while cruising.

I wish everyone the best and hopefully this is the last time we have to hear about a member of the boating community being attacked while doing something they love.

Jeff Till
www.fischerpanda.com
__________________
Jeff Till is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-07-2010, 06:38   #69
Senior Cruiser
 
Vasco's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Toronto
Boat: CS36Merlin, "La Belle Aurore" Ben393 "Breathless"
Posts: 7,138
In Nassau I leave my winch handle on the second step of the companionway at night.
__________________
Rick I
Toronto in summer, Bahamas in winter.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/beneteau393/
Vasco is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-07-2010, 07:45   #70
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: St Kitts
Boat: 36' 2001 Fortuna Island Spirit Catamaran
Posts: 254
Quote:
Originally Posted by Palarran View Post
I don't know, but in checking SXM news I found this article. Pretty scarry.

Continued Rise in Crime is intolerable says People's Action Movement Senior MP Shawn .K. Richards.
Thats about St Kitts. The last few months are crazy here. They held up a police station just last week.
__________________
PyotrBee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-07-2010, 07:50   #71
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: St Kitts
Boat: 36' 2001 Fortuna Island Spirit Catamaran
Posts: 254
Quote:
Originally Posted by GordMay View Post
"Crime is out of control because of government mismanagement and inability to properly resource our security forces," said St.Kitts-Nevis Senior Opposition MP Shawn K. Richards.

Gee, an opposition politico who claims a problem and attributes it to the Government. Why am I not surprised?
No, he's spot on on this issue. I know of police officers here that don't have bullets. A bank was held up here last week and the police had to be called TWICE. I don't know why they didn't show up sooner, but Id bet it was because they didn't have a vehicle available and had to walk or wait for a vehicle.. the bank is only about 1/2 mile from the central police station.

The police here are severely strapped financially. We once came back late at night and customs wanted to make a big show out of searching our boat and we only had one engine and it isn't fully "operational" so we couldn't safely make it into the marina as they wanted. So in the end customs called Coast Guard to come over and pick them up and take them out....and the Coast Guard got mad because they had to use fuel which they said was a bit scarce and they didn't want to do it because they knew my boat and that the search was a waste of their time and fuel...
__________________
PyotrBee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-07-2010, 08:58   #72
Registered User
 
kevingy's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Roaming, currently Fernandina Beach, FL
Boat: Under contract. Closing soon.
Posts: 174
Quote:
Originally Posted by SabreKai View Post
Lets not lose sight of the fact that this report and others like it are canaries in the coal mine and we should be paying attention to them. The world is starting to go to hell in a hand cart, crime is increasing everywhere you look
Starting? Are you saying this is a new development? The world has been going to "hell in a hand cart" since Eve bit the apple. There has always been violence. There has always been crime. There has always been poverty. As long as humanity exists, these things will exist. This is not the first attack on a cruiser, nor will it be the last. You make a valid point that all (whether on land or sea) should be vigilant to protect themselves, their families, and possessions. However, to say that things like crime, poverty, and violence are significantly worse (or for that matter, better) now than they have ever been is pure folly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SabreKai View Post
... and some retired dude on a nice sailboat makes a peachy target for some midnite robbery.
To someone with nothing, nearly nothing, or comparatively nothing, anyone with anything desirable that's not very well protected is a peachy target. Typically, when even a half-hearted attempt to protect yourself is made, it is enough to prevent most who would commit a crime from attempting to do so.
__________________
kevingy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-07-2010, 10:22   #73
Registered User

Join Date: May 2009
Location: Vancouver, Wash.
Boat: no longer on my Cabo Rico 38 Sanderling
Posts: 1,794
Send a message via MSN to John A
Quote:
Originally Posted by GordMay View Post
FWIW: St. Martin is governed* from Guadeloupe.

It’s a commune of Guadeloupe, an overseas territory of France.
The same is true of St Barths.

The last time I was there (2009) the Dutch side of St Maartin was governed* by Bonaire, and there were very hard feelings as the Government of Bonaire collected the taxes from St Maartin and decided where to spend the money.
__________________
John A is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-07-2010, 10:36   #74
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: St Kitts
Boat: 36' 2001 Fortuna Island Spirit Catamaran
Posts: 254
The status of the Dutch side is changing.

"As of October 10, 2010, the Netherlands Antilles will cease to exist. The countries of Curaçao and St. Maarten will be formed in its place, whereas the remaining islands will become public entities of The Netherlands."
__________________
PyotrBee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-07-2010, 15:10   #75
Senior Cruiser
 
osirissail's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: A real life Zombie from FL
Boat: Gulfstar 53 - Osiris
Posts: 5,416
Images: 2
Are things getting worse, crime-wise for cruisers? I would say definitely, Yes! But the reasons are complex. Many years ago there were very few cruisers visiting places where now dozens, if not, hundreds pull in every season. As the populations of each island increase, the opportunities for a job rarely keeps up with the population growth. TV is now everywhere and the young people see the advertisements, shows, and music videos of all the "stuff" you must have - according to the shows, music, and advertisements, or you are not "human." Then there are better reporting and communications between cruisers to report attacks and thefts.
- - Add this all together and you get locals who now see you are a "revenue" opportunity rather than a rare oddity. Although most cruisers do not flaunt their supposed wealth, land tourists do. Young men drink and sit around because there is nothing else for them to do or get into drugs to try to find relief from boredom. All these and many other factors add up to too much temptation for some people and they "help themselves" to what they want from your boat.
- - And the islands are cracking down and toughening up on penalties which sounds good. - But, where in earlier attacks you were only robbed - now the criminals do not want to have any witnesses so are resorting to the old New York solution - no witnesses no convictions.
- - So how do we as cruisers try to "defend" and reclaim out lives and the joys of cruising? The only practical way is prevention and vigilance. Where a few years ago, I enjoyed quiet bays and anchorages away from the "herd" of other cruisers, now I try to find a spot to anchor "inside" the herd. Not leaving temptations on deck as advertising to potential thieves is another. Secure methods of "battening down the hatches" is now on the top of my list of projects to work on.
- - Also high on the list is a flat bar iron method of securing the companion way both from the inside and outside. There have been successful repelling of invaders using this "fortress" method. If they cannot get inside, they cannot hurt you. Along with this goes some kind of bright lights, strobes, horns, etc. that can be turned on to alert your neighbors that an attack is underway. I am sure there are other valid and common sense ways to accomplish a strong preventive to being successfully attacked.
- - In other areas of the world and specifically in the Caribbean Basin there are places where the attacks are so prolific that avoidance is the best policy. But avoiding an island like St Martin - is not really going to do much as cruiser income is a very minor part of their total tourist income. And also because these attacks occur at random times with long period a relative peace and tranquility in between a large majority of cruiser wonder what the heck you are bitching about, they never had any problems.
- - I would not like to stop visiting St. Martin. So I will put my ingenuity to work and devise good preventive methods to defend my boat and its occupants. And these new methods will also pay dividends at other islands. Welcome to the "new world order."
__________________

__________________
osirissail is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
captain

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
'Overboard' by Mike Tougias - NE Tour tanksalot The Library 1 17-05-2010 19:34
RAM Mike tomj Marine Electronics 21 13-01-2008 09:40
CAPTAIN MIKE migot1 Meets & Greets 14 09-07-2007 02:45
Mike Lenke SilentOption Off Topic Forum 4 18-06-2007 09:14
Off the Beaten Path CaptainK Indian Ocean & Red Sea 1 10-04-2006 00:55



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 18:03.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.