Mexico confiscated 380 yachts - MERGED THREADS

[svseachange]

Whoa guys. The US has become a bit of a police state and the border and immigrations system is seriously stuffed up, especially for sailors, but the people are extremely generous, friendly and welcoming.

Much more so than most countries. NYC and LA are more friendly to outsiders than say London or Delhi or Mexico City or Istanbul or Montreal or Addis Ababa or Kuala Lumpur or Singapore or... in my experience.

[SvenG]

Originally Posted by shanedennis

Whoa guys. The US has become a bit of a police state and the border and immigrations system is seriously stuffed up, especially for sailors, but the people are extremely generous, friendly and welcoming.

Bait and switch. The topic was the US, not many of the inhabitants.



-Sven

[Richard_W]

Originally Posted by SvenG

Bait and switch. The topic was the US, not many of the inhabitants.

What is US without inhabitants? A place on a paper map or nautical chart ... with thick drawn borders and some colors to extenuate the geography or water depth. You cannot separate the two if you want to talk about a country/nation.

[SvenG]

Originally Posted by Richard_W

What is US without inhabitants? A place on a paper map or nautical chart ... with thick drawn borders and some colors to extenuate the geography or water depth. You cannot separate the two if you want to talk about a country/nation.

So you will blame the "good" people living in the US for all the evils of the country as a whole ?



-Sven

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by sabray

I wasn't wineing whingey..ing you were and have continued to. If we are in a competition to see who is the biggest pain in the ass you win because I quit.
You want to hate Americans go for it. Most of us are not so different then you. Except we don't have health care like you and can get over some mild disappointment with new enthusiasm.
You forgot to tell us what we would want you here more then 90 days?
Smiley face thing

Read my posts better... you might have seen that I said...
'NOT AS INDIVIDUALS'.... that is except for the odd buttheads...
Guess that must be what you took exception to..
And why would I want to stay longer in your country than I had to.. you have nothing there to tempt me to stay... and too much I'd lose were I fool enough to choose to stay... and its not free health care I get as I live in Portugal so have to pay..
I just don't get ripped off like you guys tho'..
While I respect your Patriotism don't let it lead to assumptions that because foreign folks think your Admin Sucks that we all necessarily judge the people the same...

[mcm]

a Country's attitude is always a reflection of it's people, that's who elects the Government, so, if the US is perceived as negative...do the work..

[SvenG]

Originally Posted by mcm

a Country's attitude is always a reflection of it's people, that's who elects the Government, so, if the US is perceived as negative...do the work..

How the #ell did I end up defending the good people who are still in the US !?



-Sven

[Cap Erict3]

Having lived in county's where organized corruption is the norm, I feel for the owners of the boats caught up in this.

I am surprised that there are not more first hand accounts from those involved.

[SvenG]

Originally Posted by Cap Erict3

I am surprised that there are not more first hand accounts from those involved.

Being in the target zone I've had the same question. I suppose fear might be the reason but I'd still expect posts from new accounts like astonished trying to hide their identity. CF would still know who they are but the MX authorities wouldn't (unless they are NSA buddies).



-Sven

[RigelKent]

The best case to make to protect those whose boats have been impounded will be worded with diplomatic care and constraint. The swarthy characterisations and terror-mongering are counterproductive. Putting someone's back to the wall is never the way to stand down a fight.

The question about accountability (country/admin vs 'people') was answered eloquently long ago by Shakespeare (Henry V).

BATES

Ay, or more than we should seek after; for we know
enough, if we know we are the kings subjects: if
his cause be wrong, our obedience to the king wipes
the crime of it out of us.

WILLIAMS

But if the cause be not good, the king himself hath
a heavy reckoning to make, when all those legs and
arms and heads, chopped off in battle, shall join
together at the latter day and cry all 'We died at
such a place;' some swearing, some crying for a
surgeon, some upon their wives left poor behind
them, some upon the debts they owe, some upon their
children rawly left. I am afeard there are few die
well that die in a battle; for how can they
charitably dispose of any thing, when blood is their
argument? Now, if these men do not die well, it
will be a black matter for the king that led them to
it; whom to disobey were against all proportion of
subjection.

KING HENRY V So, if a son that is by his father sent about
merchandise do sinfully miscarry upon the sea, the
imputation of his wickedness by your rule, should be
imposed upon his father that sent him: or if a
servant, under his master's command transporting a
sum of money, be assailed by robbers and die in
many irreconciled iniquities, you may call the
business of the master the author of the servant's
damnation: but this is not so: the king is not
bound to answer the particular endings of his
soldiers, the father of his son, nor the master of
his servant; for they purpose not their death, when
they purpose their services. Besides, there is no
king, be his cause never so spotless, if it come to
the arbitrement of swords, can try it out with all
unspotted soldiers: some peradventure have on them
the guilt of premeditated and contrived murder;
some, of beguiling virgins with the broken seals of
perjury; some, making the wars their bulwark, that
have before gored the gentle bosom of peace with
pillage and robbery. Now, if these men have
defeated the law and outrun native punishment,
though they can outstrip men, they have no wings to
fly from God: war is his beadle, war is vengeance;
so that here men are punished for before-breach of
the king's laws in now the king's quarrel: where
they feared the death, they have borne life away;
and where they would be safe, they perish: then if
they die unprovided, no more is the king guilty of
their damnation than he was before guilty of those
impieties for the which they are now visited. Every
subject's duty is the king's; but every subject's
soul is his own. Therefore should every soldier in
the wars do as every sick man in his bed, wash every
mote out of his conscience: and dying so, death
is to him advantage; or not dying, the time was
blessedly lost wherein such preparation was gained:
and in him that escapes, it were not sin to think
that, making God so free an offer, He let him
outlive that day to see His greatness and to teach
others how they should prepare.

[OutOfControl]

"Funny. I guess you live somewhere that has better protection of your liberty. Please tell us where that is?"

sabray, read his blog. I believe he may be, or may have been a US citizen.

OutOfControl

[Sailing Cowboy]

Why thanks Sven. I admit I had to get the dictionary out to look up that word. No shame here. Yes I am one of those USAian and well .......one of those CADian's too.

[Celestialsailor]

I'm looking at Atonished's posts and smelling fish here. There are so many hear-say reports and I have yet to talk to someone in the real mix of it. So Astonished has a whole 7 posts up to this post, who knows somebody, who is saying that they are being threatened with bodily harm from cigar smoking bandits. I'm not going for it and wondering what the motive is.
It wouldn't be the first time someone has used the Internet to create havoc.

[Coops]

Gentlemen, I have just removed numerous posts that were nothing but bickering. It's a topic that has interest to many in the cruising lifestyle so can we keep it of interest to all, instead of the rather boring and non constructive snipings by just a couple of members.

Some posts that quoted the bickering posts have also been removed. my apologies for that, but it needed cleaning up.

Thank you,

Coops.

[markpierce]

"Thanks" to Napoleonic Law, the basis of Mexican jurisprudence, one is guilty unless proven innocent. What did you expect? (A more-kindly Mexican government would give several months for non-compliant vessels to "vamos" rather than confine them.)