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Old 26-08-2012, 19:27   #46
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Re: Mexico...a Changing Place

No one is saying Mexico is completely safe. This guy's problems seem more to do with his judgement than Mexican crime.
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Old 26-08-2012, 19:41   #47
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Re: Mexico...a Changing Place

Connie and I spend as much time in Mexico as we can ! with our new to us boat we can spend even more time there! we have NEVER had any problems on either coast of mexico ! we now cruise only the gulf side and down to Bleize! We use almost nothing but anchorages except when showing or getting zarpes,We shop in all local markets, and not costco or sams but local markets ! I can't think of a time when we felt uneasy or afraid ! I don't mess with drugs or go to places where they are dealt or traded ! find that mexican workers will do a fine job on your boat if work is needed, and at a fair price ! I just can't see what all the fuss is about !! I would sure like a pic of the chain that was cut ! and I think so would any Ins Co. before they would pay off !! just sayin things are fine In Mexico if ya keep your eyes open and treat folks like ya like to be treated !! just our 2 cents
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Old 26-08-2012, 20:07   #48
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Re: Mexico...a Changing Place

August 17, 2012
Why seniors may be more vulnerable to scams
By Mark Huffman
ConsumerAffairs.com

It's no secret that senior citizens are a con artist's favorite target. They seem more trusting and more likely to fall for a scammer's pitch.

But why, exactly? Conventional wisdom holds that older people are more trusting and, because they are from a generation that came of age at a time when people were more honest, they don't question a scammer's “too good to be true” promises.

But maybe there's something more at work here. Researchers at the University of Iowa believe it all has to do with deteriorating brain function, a product of advancing years.

They say they’ve pinpointed the precise location in the human brain, called the ventromedial prefrontal cortex (vmPFC), that controls belief and doubt, and that is what explains why some of us are more gullible than others.

Direct evidence

“The current study provides the first direct evidence beyond anecdotal reports that damage to the vmPFC increases credulity. Indeed, this specific deficit may explain why highly intelligent vmPFC patients can fall victim to seemingly obvious fraud schemes,” the researchers wrote in the paper published in a special issue of the journal Frontiers in Neuroscience.

Statistics tend to support their conclusions. A study conducted for the National Institute of Justice in 2009 concluded that nearly 12 percent of people 60 and older had been exploited financially by a family member or a stranger. And a report last year by insurer MetLife Inc. estimated the annual loss by victims of elder financial abuse at $2.9 billion.

In 2006, ConsumerAffairs reported the case of an elderly Kansas man who lost $300,000 to the Canadian lottery scam over a four-year period. In an interview, his daughter said repeated intervention by family members and the police did little good, that her father could not conceive that someone would lie to him.

The Iowa authors say their research can explain why the elderly, like the subject of our story, are vulnerable.

Possible explanation



“In our theory, the more effortful process of disbelief to items initially believed is mediated by the vmPFC, which, in old age, tends to disproportionately lose structural integrity and associated functionality,” they wrote. “Thus, we suggest that vulnerability to misleading information, outright deception and fraud in older adults is the specific result of a deficit in the doubt process that is mediated by the vmPFC.”

The ventromedial prefrontal cortex is a part of the brain the size of a softball lodged in the front of the human head, right above the eyes. It’s part of a larger area known to scientists since the extraordinary case of Phineas Gage that controls a range of emotions and behaviors, from impulsivity to poor planning.

But brain scientists have struggled to identify which regions of the prefrontal cortex govern specific emotions and behaviors, including the cognitive seesaw between belief and doubt.

Tests with a deceptive ad

In a study 500 seniors with various forms of documented brain damage were shown advertisements mimicking ones flagged as misleading by the Federal Trade Commission (FTC) to test how much they believed or doubted the ads. The deception in the ads was subtle; for example, an ad for “Legacy Luggage” that trumpets the gear as “American Quality” turned on the consumer’s ability to distinguish whether the luggage was manufactured in the United States versus inspected in the country.

Each participant was asked to gauge how much he or she believed the deceptive ad and how likely he or she would buy the item if it were available. The researchers found that the patients with damage to the ventromedial prefrontal cortex were roughly twice as likely to believe a given ad, even when given disclaimer information pointing out it was misleading. And, they were more likely to buy the item, regardless of whether misleading information had been corrected.

“Behaviorally, they fail the test to the greatest extent,” says Natalie Denburg, assistant professor in neurology who devised the ad tests. “They believe the ads the most, and they demonstrate the highest purchase intention. Taken together, it makes them the most vulnerable to being deceived."

Process begins at age 60

The vulnerability begins as you get older. The ventromedial prefrontal cortex begins to deteriorate as people reach age 60 and older, although the onset and the pace of deterioration varies, according to Daniel Tranel, neurology and psychology professor at Iowa and corresponding author on the paper. He thinks the finding will enable doctors, caregivers, and relatives to be more understanding of decision making by the elderly.

“And maybe protective,” Tranel said. “Instead of saying, ‘How would you do something silly and transparently stupid,’ people may have a better appreciation of the fact that older people have lost the biological mechanism that allows them to see the disadvantageous nature of their decisions.”

Story provided by ConsumerAffairs.
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Old 26-08-2012, 20:11   #49
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Re: Mexico...a Changing Place

Interesting! Yeah, the guy used poor judgement leaving his boat for whatever reason. And yes, a 1500 pound mooring was too light.

But I totally disagree with the chain breaking because of storm loads. 3/8" triple B has a breaking strength of 11,000, that is over 5 tons! My experience is bow chocks and cleats for the most part poorly considered by manufacturers and boat owners. Lost count of the number of chocks I have seen held with a pair of 5/16" bolts with washers for back up plates. I doubt the bow's fiberglass that supports the cleats and chocks would sustain a 5+ ton load.

Yes, the boat found the beach but I doubt it was because of the chain's failure.

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Old 26-08-2012, 20:26   #50
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Re: Mexico...a Changing Place

The "cut chain" theory is just wild speculation. Besides, if someone wanted to set the boat adrift, just unbolt a shackle (likely weak link anyway). Hack sawing a 3/8" chain is very hard work.

My guess (and it's just a guess) is that a big sportfisher came hauling ass by with a huge wake in the poorly protected mooring area. Boat shocked the chain or a shackle when bobing up and down (a 1" thick nylon pendant bridle is not going to stretch). Ka-po, broken chain and no longer moored.

The charges claimed by the salvors are similar to what would happen in the US or anywhere else. These are claims only, and subject to legal process to determine realistic rewards based on what was done and what risks were taken by salvors to save boat. The boat still belongs to the owner, but those that salvaged the boat (boat would have certainly been lost if they didn't act - a classic salvage operation) have a legal right to compensation.

If the owner had insurance, the insurance company would have hired a local attorney and straighted this out. With insurance the owner would have had bonding and would not have to be subject to being detained till things straightened out. He would not have had to run like a rabbit as he did.

Mexico has laws and legal processes. I have had my boat in Mexico for over a year, and have also had opportunity to hire Mexican lawyers. This is not really third world. Things can be accomplished.

The owner running and abandoning his vessel is a questionable action, and will have the result of making things just a bit harder for everyone that follows. I can sort of understand it if he had no insurance, but not a great end result.

Stories such as this are a big reason I have insurance. Insurance companies have resources to handle situations that can be overwhelming to a lone cruiser in a foreign country.
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Old 26-08-2012, 20:43   #51
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Re: Mexico...a Changing Place

I'm pretty sure he said he was uninsured. Bad judgement clearly but we all are guilty of that from time to time. It is very unfortunate the consequences were so severe but it could have gotten much worse I expect. At least he decided to listen to his gut and cut his losses.

I just want to add how much I hate people generalizing about all Mexicans or Mexico. There are bad people everywhere and you have to make the best decision you can in any situation of possible risk - what is acceptable is going to be different for each of us based on our worldview, experience, ethnicity and gender and a bunch of other things. Honestly I have a hard time believing that the police chief and locals conspired to rip this guy off. I expect folks simply capitalized on a situation that presented itself in the form of an abandoned boat washing ashore during a storm. I think it is very irresponsible for anyone to malign a community or race of people without ample compelling evidence. This is how half truths and damn lies get spread. So easily.
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Old 26-08-2012, 20:47   #52
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Re: Mexico...a Changing Place

Quote:
Originally Posted by virginia boy View Post
August 17, 2012
Why seniors may be more vulnerable to scams
By Mark Huffman
ConsumerAffairs.com

It's no secret that senior citizens are a con artist's favorite target. They seem more trusting and more likely to fall for a scammer's pitch.

But why, exactly?

Story provided by ConsumerAffairs.
Because if you're BRAIN DEAD, SCAMMERS WILL TAKE ADVANTAGE.
In ANY country.
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Old 26-08-2012, 20:59   #53
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Re: Mexico...a Changing Place

Having spent several years cruising Mexican waters, we left our boat in several locations over the years. Two really stand out... one was the Marina at El Cid in Mazatlan where we left the boat in the charge of a local who did brightwork on several vessels who we had got to know. A hurricane came through during one of our absences back to the US and he not only double tied all the mooring lines, he removed all the sails and the bimini storing them all below. Several boats were damaged but not ours. Don't recall his name but he was a real savy guy who had lived around Marina Mazatlan all his life. This was in the early 90's.
The other experieice was having a mechanical problem for which there was no easy fix requiring parts from the US and leaving the boat for 6 weeks in Bahia Tortuga. We had met a gentleman by the name of Hector Estrada whose father had fished abalone with the father of a mutual friend in Ensenada around the Bahia Tortuga area. We looked him up and he assured us there would be no problems. Other boaters who were anchored nearby said a crew of 3-4 took a panga out the boat every week and WASHED her down then rinsed her in fresh water they took out in jerry cans. We arrived back aboard to find her in great shape. Sr Estrada refused any money but instead we made a donation in his name to the local Parish Priest which went a good cause we discovered later. This was only 15 or so years ago but we have never forgotten the wonderful folks who befriended us during our travels south of the border.
It is tragic that others haven't experienced the same friendship and hospitality we had with the Mexican people. Capt Phil
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Old 26-08-2012, 21:03   #54
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Re: Mexico...a Changing Place

Ironically enough, a lot of habitual con targets I know tell stories that seem to highlight their intuition. The folks getting duped the most tend to think they have a lot of street smarts.
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Old 26-08-2012, 21:11   #55
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Re: Mexico...a Changing Place

Yes sir Capt Phil !! Us old folks are such easy ducks !! Ive cruised all over the world and been to places most have never thought of going to ! Ive seen pretty much every skin deal that was ever thought up !! LOL Hell at 74 im still able to lift my own weight and I can stand a 24 hr wheel watch if I need to ! LOL and at 6ft 2 and 210 lbs don't have many problems ! Connie and I will still be cruiseing Mexico and I hope a lot of folks like one above stay away!! Leaves more room for me to anchor LOL
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Old 26-08-2012, 21:15   #56
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Re: Mexico...a Changing Place

All I know is that this happened in 'safe' Newport Beach:
Murder of Thomas and Jackie Hawks - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I have yet to hear of anything quite like it happening in Mexico (or anywhere else for that matter)
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Old 26-08-2012, 23:05   #57
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Re: Mexico...a Changing Place

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennis.G View Post
The "cut chain" theory is just wild speculation. Besides, if someone wanted to set the boat adrift, just unbolt a shackle (likely weak link anyway). Hack sawing a 3/8" chain is very hard work.

My guess (and it's just a guess) is that a big sportfisher came hauling ass by with a huge wake in the poorly protected mooring area. Boat shocked the chain or a shackle when bobing up and down (a 1" thick nylon pendant bridle is not going to stretch). Ka-po, broken chain and no longer moored.

The charges claimed by the salvors are similar to what would happen in the US or anywhere else. These are claims only, and subject to legal process to determine realistic rewards based on what was done and what risks were taken by salvors to save boat. The boat still belongs to the owner, but those that salvaged the boat (boat would have certainly been lost if they didn't act - a classic salvage operation) have a legal right to compensation.

If the owner had insurance, the insurance company would have hired a local attorney and straighted this out. With insurance the owner would have had bonding and would not have to be subject to being detained till things straightened out. He would not have had to run like a rabbit as he did.

Mexico has laws and legal processes. I have had my boat in Mexico for over a year, and have also had opportunity to hire Mexican lawyers. This is not really third world. Things can be accomplished.

The owner running and abandoning his vessel is a questionable action, and will have the result of making things just a bit harder for everyone that follows. I can sort of understand it if he had no insurance, but not a great end result.

Stories such as this are a big reason I have insurance. Insurance companies have resources to handle situations that can be overwhelming to a lone cruiser in a foreign country.

This is all a great argument, and I'm sure perfectly legal in most instances. But I would think the waters might be muddied a bit by the fact that one of the "salvors" with a large bill was the guy who had been paid to care for the boat. It seems to me he might have a responsibilty to recover the boat if it breaks free without making a salvage claim, as he has already been contracted to do just that.
I agree with everyone else that this guy was just not careful enough. Regardless of where or on how big a mooring he left the boat, he hired someone he was not absolutely certain of to watch the boat. I think when the caretaker sent him a bill one week in to "repair the alarm system because the boat had been broken into", they were just feeling him out. When he immediately sent a check, they thought "we've got a live one on the line here" and decided to take him for all they could. I'm not trying to disparage Mexico or it's people in any way, but there are bad people who will happily rip you off if you let them everywhere. I thought his story had the ring of truth to it. I doubt he was making it up.
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Old 27-08-2012, 00:33   #58
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We had our dinghy slashed in Z town a few months ago. I also know of a cat that had two kayaks and a laptop stolen in Z town. The local authorities told me that "it didn't happen". A local fisherman said he saw a Navy guy slash the dink for what that is worth. So far we have not seen any areas that are not somewhat of a theft risk. Security is a concern south of the border, at least as far as Panama which is as low as we have traveled. It isn't all margaritas and sunsets.
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Old 27-08-2012, 01:03   #59
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Re: Mexico...a Changing Place

VB, I find the rape analogy offensive and a bit of a leap. It's a boat and it's the skipper's responsibility to make sure it is properly secured anywhere.
Science has been used to justify all kinds of attitudes about all kinds of people
As I stated earlier I very much sympathize with the owner, we do the best we can in any given situation and sometimes we make mistakes. Had it been me I'd like to think I'd have sailed her on to a better spot in the first place, this any place in the world; first or third. As someone else pointed out, it is a sailboat... a somewhat cumbersome sailboat but Z has had to manage without engine power in SB if I remember right.
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Old 27-08-2012, 08:06   #60
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Re: Mexico...a Changing Place

11000 pound breaking point--is less weight than my ericson 35. formosa 51 is a formidable boat with a lot of heft and freeboard. powers of nature are strong and do awe-some things. my 41 formosa dragged a 2840 pound mooring with half inch chain.. a force 50 snapped a 1/2 inch chain. force 50 is close to formosa 51 in weight and handling. these big guys need 1/2 in chain minimum on a mooring for safety . they are heavy cruisers.
there is no way a formosa 51 will hold fast in ts or td situations on a light mooring. there were 2 of these thru z town while the formosa 51 was on a light mooring. there is a haul yard very close to zihuat t hey should have gone to use--is cheaper than using marinas in water and is safer for the boat in these storms.

generally when given a job to do regarding boats left here for a bit of time the mexicans who work those boats are very proud of their work. i can see them helping the lost boat try to find way back to mooring, but i cannot see them stealing it. but i am sure this would not be first time a disregarded boat disappeared from a too light mooring in a nation regarded as dangerous by folks who live in places such as new york and lost angeles and chicago, etc.......if ye look, ye may find the stats for boat theft are worse in usa than here in mexico.

no isnt SAFE anywhere in world. to keep a boat safe, one must maintain a careful watch--even when not on board. their choice was to buy a watcher and leave boat on a dangerous mooring.
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