Merged Threads: HMS Bounty

[thompsonisland]

I don't knkew anything about Gumbys, but they look impossible to swim in, yes?

[Feral Cement]

Some have asked why they weren't under sail power. Two answers come to mind: 1) forward motion was increasing the rate at which they were taking on water, and 2) they may have struck their sails before attempting to board the life rafts so that the ship would not be trying to sail away as they loaded up.

I still cannot understand why they didn't take a turn into the Chessy, wait 2 days, then head back out. That would have lowered the risk factors by at LEAST 50%.

They took a chance and paid a very dear price. Moral: When in doubt, don't go.

John

[David_Old_Jersey]

In ye olden days (when these sorts of ships were worked) the crew whilst not expendable were consumables. and no doubt part of the logic to crew size was enough capacity to cope with a loss or 3 (spares?).

Obviously nowadays not considered an acceptable way to crew a vessel ......but probably accounts for the vessel being under motor (would it really be mutiny in 2012 if any of the crew looked up at the mast and said "f#ck off" to climbing that - when a reasonable option was turning on the engine instead of risking life and limb)......apart from having less crew than the original Bounty they were also less capable simply from Captain not being able (nor willing) to make them take the same risks as in days of olde.

Whilst would likely be "normal" for a boat of that type / construction to take in water, seems a bit daft if that was the case to rely only on one source of power for the pumps . (one thing to bear in mind is that once water gets inside a boat (of any size!) it becomes very destructive - a couple of tons (in this case likely even more) sloshing around will cause a lot of damage).


In regard to Women first - to me it would primarily be based on the capabilities and circumstances of each person. In some scenarios it may make more sense to put the most physically (and mentally?) able into a raft / lifeboat first - and that may be a man or a woman, but more likely to be a man........plus circumstances may simply not allow folks to queue up in gender order and a case of evacuation first of those who are best placed to speedily evacuate (whether that be their physical location, what they are wearing (i.e. lifejacket actually on etc) or don't require any handholding / persuading). It's simply a numbers game......and that may involve leaving the weakest until last .

[David_Old_Jersey]

Just did a quick Google.......

The crew (Officers and men) on the original HMS Bounty was 46.

On the replica it was 16(?).

No doubt there were some crew reducing technology benefits from being in the 21st century, but nonetheless a big reduction in capacity (for those "oh sh#t" events).

[GaryMayo]

Had the crew numbered in the 40's, that would also possibly have made possible more experienced crew in the ranks. Additional weathered crew may have had a meeting with captain before a decision was made to set sail. Additional knowledgeable heads could have spelled the difference, and stayed in port.

Had they taken to sea with a larger crew, we could have still seen the number rescued we have now, and much greater loss of life. We will never know.

Was 16 crew an average crew for their ship? Did all the crew set sail into that storm?

That ship did nothing, that others did not capture on video. Where are the videos of that ship leaving port for her fateful voyage? Would be interesting to see.

Some question my decision to order videos of that ship. One rather sternly. I assure you, no loss of life will come about from my decision to place an Amazon order. I hope that member, has a habit of questioning more important decisions that impact people's lives.

I found this posted of a father of a crew member.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oKpM...e_gdata_player

[S/V Alchemy]

Originally Posted by xymotic

I don't think it's even POSSIBLE to build such a ship if you had unlimited resources. The fact is the British had run out of oak timbers at the time of the American Revolution.

True. They needed fir and pine from North America and the Baltic and specifically did some raids during the Napoleonic Wars so they could poach lumber and cordage intended for enemy navies.

Those who paid for the Royal Navy, however, were quite aware that making Britain the master of the seas wasn't going to be cheap.

[David_Old_Jersey]

Originally Posted by GaryMayo

Had they taken to sea with a larger crew, we could have still seen the number rescued we have now, and much greater loss of life. We will never know.

Might well have been - I was wondering about whether the number of crew that needed rescuing was a factor in the casualties that occurred.

[TEE]

Originally Posted by btrayfors

Imbeciles!

We don't need to know anything else: Hurricane Sandy has been touted for many days, and is an immensely large storm. This is not news. This storm is and has always been described as an immense dangerous storm. Category 1 doesn't mean a thing.

The Navy sent it's ships to sea from Norfolk on Friday.

ANYONE who attempts a passage off Hatteras in the face of an oncoming hurricane is an IDIOT.

I hope the Captain survives, but only so he and his backers can be PROSECUTED for gross incompetence.

Bill

I posted earlier and tried to be nice. I didn't use the word idiot to describe this ill fated voyage but probably should have. I have heard a lot about the sea worthiness of the Bounty. No boat is seaworthy in a hurricane. There are only two kinds of boats in a hurricane, lucky and sunk. The worst loss of life in US Naval history not caused in battle was Halseys Hurricane in the Phillipines in WWII. In that storm US Navy Destroyers capsized. Most people don't know the Bounty almost sunk in 1998 in heavy seas with water coming through the planks. If it hadn't been for the Coast Guard getting pumps to it, it would have sunk then. The captain was on notice about the questionable seaworthiness of the boat in a storm.

I have some life saving advice for some sure fire sailing storm management technique that is guaranteed to save lives: When there is a hurricane out in the Ocean and you are in port, you don't leave port and sail into it. Here is what you do: (1) Leave your boat on the hard, anchored in the water with multiple anchors, or tied to the dock; (2) get off of it; (3) run like hell as fast and far away as you can get; (4) after storm call insurance company. You might have no boat at the end of the storm, but using my method, you will still have some good sailing days ahead.

[stevewrye]

Over on the main page of S.A. is a video from the Captain of the Bounty recorded last August. It is long but starting at about 9 minutes and 40 seconds into the video is the explanation why they were out in a hurricane. Shocking and foolish.

[thompsonisland]

I can't find it. Can you post a link?

[thompsonisland]

Nevermind.

[stevewrye]

S.A. home page. Not sure if we can post a link to S.A. here.

[Stray-Cat]

Originally Posted by stevewrye

Over on the main page of S.A. is a video from the Captain of the Bounty recorded last August. It is long but starting at about 9 minutes and 40 seconds into the video is the explanation why they were out in a hurricane. Shocking and foolish.

Agree
Heres the video

HMS Bounty - YouTube

[zeehag]

the bounty WAS NOT IN THE HURRICANE.
READ THE BOUNTY'S PAGES AND SEE WHAT THEY WERE DOING.
is all written plainand simple in english able to be understood by all who read.
all were in lifeboat. 2 were swept out of lifeboat.
winds only 40 kts--NOT HURRICANE WINDS, are they???
seas 13 ft--SANDY HAD 38 FT SEAS . look at the paths on bountys pages--THEY WERE NOT IN THE HURRICANE.

[xymotic]

Originally Posted by zeehag

the bounty WAS NOT IN THE HURRICANE.
READ THE BOUNTY'S PAGES AND SEE WHAT THEY WERE DOING.
is all written plainand simple in english able to be understood by all who read.
all were in lifeboat. 2 were swept out of lifeboat.
winds only 40 kts--NOT HURRICANE WINDS, are they???
seas 13 ft--SANDY HAD 38 FT SEAS . look at the paths on bountys pages--THEY WERE NOT IN THE HURRICANE.

Zee, just because they were not in the Eye ignores the fact that they left port as a MAJOR storm was powering up the gulf. They absolutely were in rough water/weather caused by that storm. And "ONLY" 40 knots? That's not yer average cruise neither.

"It's one of the biggest seas I've ever been in. It was huge out there," said Coast Guard rescue swimmer Randy Haba

A helicopter pilot said the waves appeared to be 30 feet high during the rescue.

Superstorm Sandy: Crew member of abandoned ship dies after being rescued - CBS News