Merged Threads: HMS Bounty

[btrayfors]

Imbeciles!

We don't need to know anything else: Hurricane Sandy has been touted for many days, and is an immensely large storm. This is not news. This storm is and has always been described as an immense dangerous storm. Category 1 doesn't mean a thing.

The Navy sent it's ships to sea from Norfolk on Friday.

ANYONE who attempts a passage off Hatteras in the face of an oncoming hurricane is an IDIOT.

I hope the Captain survives, but only so he and his backers can be PROSECUTED for gross incompetence.

Bill

[Blue Stocking]

Originally Posted by gjordan

I just watched the video in post#4 and it seems strange to me that the ship was healing that badly in what didnt seem to be very extream winds. It was almost weird to see no one on deck, but the hatches wide open. It was about 25 years ago that a similar replica square rigger sunk a few hundred miles from where the Bounty went down. It was knocked down and wide open hatches overwhelmed it, causing several deaths. This seems like a strange tragedy.____Grant.

1984 the Marques was knocked down, while sailing in clear blue skies, by a microburst.
She had just started in the Tall Ships race from Bermuda to NY.
I was one of the last people to see her, as we followed her North to the horizon.

[FloridaWriter]

Walbridge, the captain, was known for saying that he could take the Bounty anywhere, and it seems he was trying to prove himself right.

[thompsonisland]

The design of some of the tall ships look so ludicrous, I wonder if they were particularly seaworthy in general? I'm talking about the Bounty type, with it's enormous after cabins and whatnot. How much of this design was ego, versus engineering?

[lknight]

From the Coast Guard rescue video (link previously posted by others), it looks like the location of the rescue was at:

33° 54.190'N
73° 50.340'W

The above coordinates were taken from the on-screen heads-up display data near the beginning of the video.

When I plugged those into Google Earth, that seems to indicate a water depth of about 14,200'. Can anyone with a chart of that area confirm that approximate depth?

Of course, the ship might be some miles away from the rescue location, but that depth sure looks like a re-float of the ship is rather unlikely.

[FloridaWriter]

Those old British ships survived incredible storms certainly in the Channel and the North Sea and the Bay of Biscay, much worse than Hurricane Sandy, but then they were sailed not motored wherever the Captain wished to go as in the Bounty and would have run before a storm, they struck their topmasts before any bad weather, they were heavily ballasted and they hove to when conditions became untenable. The speculation will be endless about the Bounty, but the undeniable fact is that she should have remained in port.

[Stray-Cat]

Heres a news link from cbc
2 missing as Hurricane Sandy sinks HMS Bounty - Nova Scotia - CBC News

[speakeasy]

Old British ships had experienced crews of over a hundred, not 10 or 12.

[Richard5]

Originally Posted by thompsonisland

Is there a specific ratio of period to wave height that should set off the alarms (rule of thumb, not hardand fast, of course)?

Willard Bascom's booklet, Waves and Beaches is the perrenial favorite. It's out of print I think. Of course, Bowditch's American Practical Navigator is a wonderful resource.

When water depth is 1/2 or less of wave length the wave is classified as shallow water wave. A spilling wave is mostly due to bottom topography although certainly water depth comes into play. A sea state which features a current counter to moderate to severe winds creates short choppy waves. A warm water current of such inertia as the Gulf Stream running into cold water (varying salinity too) sets up steep sided wave crests with deep troughs of a very short wave length. The ratio of crest to wave (slope) can be 1:1. The saving grace of such a steep slope is the wave in such a sea state is not advancing in set. However, the wind may be sufficient enough to collapse the wave (spilling crest). in that condition the water is moving in the current and the wave crest "advance" in the wind. When the two forces are counter (northerly wind in Gulf Stream) there is trouble. Put this in shallow waters and there is danger.

When the mariner finds himself in such conditions it is extremely helpful to place a heavy oil in the water. Oil soaked clothes held inside a burlap bag is one way to accomplish this.

[sailorboy1]

Originally Posted by FloridaWriter

Those old British ships survived incredible storms certainly in the Channel and the North Sea and the Bay of Biscay, much worse than Hurricane Sandy, .....

And of curse lots didn't make it, especially down in the Carolinas which is why there are treasure ship wrecks

[Svan]

Here's a video of the crew getting their asses pulled out of the water.

Hurricane Sandy: Live Updates - Interactive Feature - NYTimes.com

I am glad that they have been rescued, not least because we will find out how this disgrace took place. I imagine the skipper is among the rescued, and I look forward to him being called to account for his decisions.

Eventually TallShipBounty.org will be updated.

[zeehag]

old british sailing ships didnot have engines or kevlar...


update----

Missing HMS Bounty Crew Member Found, Condition Unknown
Submitted by KFSM_Web_Staff
Monday, October 29th, 2012, 12:19pm
Topics: News

Claudene Christian, 42, a crew member of the HMS Bounty who went missing off the coast of North Carolina Sunday evening has been found, according to a family member.

Christian was found unconscious and alone, Patricia Saulsberry, her aunt, said.

Saulsberry, along with Christian’s parents who live in Vian, Okla., have been awaiting updates from the US Coast Guard since the replica ship sank in the wake of Hurricane Sandy.

Saulsberry does not know her niece’s condition at this time, but said the rescuers began CPR when they found her. It’s believed Christian was in the water for 9 or 10 hours, according to Saulsberry.

Christian and the tall ship’s captain were the only two of the 16-member crew who didn’t make it into the lifeboats when the US Coast Guard attempted to rescue them 90 miles southeast of Hatteras, N.C.

No word yet if the captain of the ship has been found.

The generator went out on the ship while at sea Sunday evening, according to Christian’s mother, who is also named Claudene. The ship then began taking on water.

The ship was about 160 miles from the center of the storm when the crew attempted to board rescue boats, according to reports. Helicopters were also used in the rescue efforts.

Christian’s parents are expected to travel to North Carolina.

The ship was on its way from New London, Conn. to St. Petersburg, Fla. The tall ship was built for the 1962 movie “Mutiny on the Bounty.”

Christian last contacted her parents on Thursday, according to the mother. She called to tell them that she loved them and that she wouldn’t be able to contact them from the sea, the mom said.

Christian is a graduate of University of Southern California, as well as a former Miss Teen Alaska.

She is the creator of “Cheerleader Dolls.” Mattell first sued Christian in 1996 allegedly a copyright infringement, according to a report from the Sequoyah County Times.

Her aunt said Christian took an interest in ships after toured replicas of the Nina and the Pinta. She joined the crew of the HMS Bounty in May, according to Christian’s Twitter account.

ok--so the only one missing now is the captain of the bounty. he is floating in atlantic ocean in a survival suit. hope he gets found.

[downunder]

Originally Posted by reed1v

40 knots is cruising weather in hawaii, new zealand, cape town, and of course the north sea. horrible boat or piss poor seamanship can sink battleships. use to be a way of 'culling" captains on escorts by sailing battle groups into hurricanes. not uncommon to have a destroyer or two sink, while the battleships(the missouri for one) happily sailed along.

I would suspect sea state from Gulf Stream and wave fetch from the size of the system rather than wind alone was the real issue for the ship.

[LakeSuperior]

Originally Posted by FloridaWriter

Those old British ships survived incredible storms certainly in the Channel and the North Sea and the Bay of Biscay, much worse than Hurricane Sandy, but then they were sailed not motored wherever the Captain wished to go as in the Bounty and would have run before a storm, they struck their topmasts before any bad weather, they were heavily ballasted and they hove to when conditions became untenable. The speculation will be endless about the Bounty, but the undeniable fact is that she should have remained in port.

Doesn't seem like they would have much time to strike the topmast as the weather forcasting was primitive. How much time does a falling barometer give you?

[zeehag]

sandy was a cat 1 hurricane when bounty went down in her. that is way more than merely 40 mph winds. whoever said was only 40 mph winds was either wrong or deluded.

BOUNTY WAS IN A HURRICANE. some folks do not seem to understand this fact.