Merged Threads: HMS Bounty

[Blue Stocking]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

A charitable interpretation, and maybe even right

Thanks for that - I would really like to think that's what it was all about. . .

+1

[GaryMayo]

Originally Posted by Panope

In the Video posted previously, The Captain was interviewed and said:

"We chase hurricanes" (said with a smile).
"We get a good ride out of it" (chasing hurricanes).
"70 waves were not uncomfortable"
"The engines are undersized"
"We sail to our destinations"
"Square riggers do not go to windward"
"The fastest speed we have seen was 12 knots under bare poles in 95m.p.h. wids"

Is it possible that the captain viewed the coming hurricane with its strong southerly winds as an opportunity (for traveling south) not to be missed?

Steve

Very good post pointing out the mindset of the captain just weeks before this tragic event. Maybe he thought he could break his previous speed record.

[sabray]

Watched the video. Then watched the lorax. Came to mind " that's a reporter" substitute women for reporter.

[Gene :^)]

It seems to me that if all the crew wanted to go on the trip and none were forced in any way, then there is no wrong doing here.

Many people are thrill seekers and I see no problem with that. If I wanted to go out in rough weather, I wouldn't want anyone telling me I cannot just because they wouldn't.

Surfers go out in dangerous storm surf for giant waves, putting lives in danger.
Race car drivers go way faster than what is considered safe, putting lives in danger.
People climb Mt Everest in horrid conditions, putting lives in danger.
People jump out of perfectly good airplanes, putting lives in danger.
Stunt pilots and Blue Angels do dangerous acrobatics, putting lives in danger.
People try to cross oceans in sub standard vessels, putting lives in danger.
People sail in Arctic waters or ice filled waters in fiberglass boats, putting lives in danger.

With only the details we currently know, I feel the captain was very experienced and did a fantastic routing job. I wish I were as able and confident as he. He was past the storm and I was impressed with his navigation around it.

He was captain of a ship, not a boat like most of us. The ship had already proven herself in similar conditions and I would think the captain had no doubt in her ability to make this trip. Ships can take much more than we think.

-----

Gene :^)
http://www.Strathbelle.com/

[xymotic]

Blue Angels, Everest Climbers, Sky Divers do NOT go out in Bad Weather. Racers dramatically alter their equipment AND speed before the slightest hint of rain, and when surfers and other go out in Hurricanes the result is usually predictable.

[Gene :^)]

Originally Posted by xymotic

Blue Angels, Everest Climbers, Sky Divers do NOT go out in Bad Weather. Racers dramatically alter their equipment AND speed before the slightest hint of rain, and when surfers and other go out in Hurricanes the result is usually predictable.

You missed the point, going out in bad weather was most likely the "thrill" they were looking for. Getting to Florida was just a destination.

People do dangerous things for the thrill.


-----

Gene :^)
http://www.Strathbelle.com/

[Rakuflames]

Originally Posted by Svan

Some points of fact.

The indecision by the NWS about whether to call Sandy a hurricane related solely to its source of energy. Hurricanes, as tropical cyclones, draw energy from the warm ocean. Ordinary storms draw their energy from the temperature differentials in the atmosphere. This change happened when the hurricane merged with a sizeable low-pressure system.

You can see the storm bulk up nearly 2-3x in diameter while it's abeam Florida: SANDY Graphics Archive sometime on Friday. That must have been an oh-**** moment aboard Bounty.

The question about when to depart the boat may have been influenced by darkness. The first distress call was at 1830, the order to abandon given at 0400.

That wasn't indecision on the part of the NWS. They called the storm "extra-tropical" and *urged* people to recognize that it did NOT mean the storm had weakened, and that in fact it was already in some ways worse and that this worsening was expected to continue. Whatever what went wrong, it doesn't lie at the feet of NWS or NOAA.

[Rakuflames]

Originally Posted by Gene :^)

It seems to me that if all the crew wanted to go on the trip and none were forced in any way, then there is no wrong doing here.

Many people are thrill seekers and I see no problem with that. If I wanted to go out in rough weather, I wouldn't want anyone telling me I cannot just because they wouldn't.

Surfers go out in dangerous storm surf for giant waves, putting lives in danger.
Race car drivers go way faster than what is considered safe, putting lives in danger.
People climb Mt Everest in horrid conditions, putting lives in danger.
People jump out of perfectly good airplanes, putting lives in danger.
Stunt pilots and Blue Angels do dangerous acrobatics, putting lives in danger.
People try to cross oceans in sub standard vessels, putting lives in danger.
People sail in Arctic waters or ice filled waters in fiberglass boats, putting lives in danger.

With only the details we currently know, I feel the captain was very experienced and did a fantastic routing job. I wish I were as able and confident as he. He was past the storm and I was impressed with his navigation around it.

He was captain of a ship, not a boat like most of us. The ship had already proven herself in similar conditions and I would think the captain had no doubt in her ability to make this trip. Ships can take much more than we think.

-----

Gene :^)
http://www.Strathbelle.com/

You said that so well. That is exactly why I'm withholding judgment. What we do is dangerous. it's not as dangerous as, say, climbing Mt. Everest, but it's dangerous.

[thompsonisland]

Not suggesting that anyone is blaming the weather service, but we've seen some alarming instances of that historically and recently, as in the Italian earthquake inquiry. To my mind this is an extremely dangerous idea, a "shoot the messenger" mentality that seeks to assign blame for individual choices outside of those individuals, or assume blame for bad luck.

[Svan]

I wish to clarify that in no way did the the NHC show indecision. The media took the issue sideways, however.

[TEE]

Originally Posted by Gene :^)

It seems to me that if all the crew wanted to go on the trip and none were forced in any way, then there is no wrong doing here.

Many people are thrill seekers and I see no problem with that. If I wanted to go out in rough weather, I wouldn't want anyone telling me I cannot just because they wouldn't.

Surfers go out in dangerous storm surf for giant waves, putting lives in danger.
Race car drivers go way faster than what is considered safe, putting lives in danger.
People climb Mt Everest in horrid conditions, putting lives in danger.
People jump out of perfectly good airplanes, putting lives in danger.
Stunt pilots and Blue Angels do dangerous acrobatics, putting lives in danger.
People try to cross oceans in sub standard vessels, putting lives in danger.
People sail in Arctic waters or ice filled waters in fiberglass boats, putting lives in danger.

With only the details we currently know, I feel the captain was very experienced and did a fantastic routing job. I wish I were as able and confident as he. He was past the storm and I was impressed with his navigation around it.

He was captain of a ship, not a boat like most of us. The ship had already proven herself in similar conditions and I would think the captain had no doubt in her ability to make this trip. Ships can take much more than we think.

-----

Gene :^)
http://www.Strathbelle.com/

Well, gee. I guess if I am walking down the docks, and I see anybody with a t-shirt that reads, "I intentionally sailed into Sandy, and all I got was nearly drowned and this stupid t-shirt," I will know they were on the crew.

[Feral Cement]

Originally Posted by David_Old_Jersey

In some scenarios it may make more sense to put the most physically (and mentally?) able into a raft / lifeboat first - and that may be a man or a woman, but more likely to be a man........

You're on your own in dangerous waters, mate. Been nice knowin' ya.

[micah719]

He's oiling up his tap-dancing shoes now......

[zeehag]

nhc showed sandy as a hurricane until after it beat new jersey to pieces.

[Reefmagnet]

Around these parts, we have problems with people driving across flooded bridges and causeways resulting in their cars being washed off the road leading to, in some cases, fatalities. This is not just people driving blindly into flood waters in the middle of the night during a torrential downpour, but rather people making conscious decisions to attempt the crossing. In fact, it is such a problem the authorities have ramped up the fine and also instigated a media campaign in an effort to minimise the instances of this happening. The problem is caused by a combination of familiarity, over confidence, the "need" to reach the destination with minimal delays and a "she'll be right mate, it's only a couple of inches higher than last time we crossed" attitude.

I would guess, and it's only my guess, that it was thinking along much the same lines that placed the Bounty in sufficient enough peril to initiate the chain of events that ultimately caused her to founder.