Merged Threads: HMS Bounty

[Astrid]

Generally the original would have had a carpenter and carpenter's mate. The pumps of that time were, of course manual, but the two score or so crewmen would have been at the pumps in shifts. Then again, the original would have been only three years old, not over fifty.

[GaryMayo]

The news said a couple times, the crew was being debriefed by the Coastguard.

When I hear of someone being debriefed by the military, I know it to mean being told what they can and cannot say to friends, family and the press.

In this case, I would hope the news got it wrong (again) and the crew was giving a deposition to the Coastguard, telling them what happened leading up to the distress call.

[Sherrinthesea]

There are two HMS Bounty replicas.
The one that sunk was timber construction built in Nova Scotia.
The other Bounty was built in NZ. She has a steel hull sheathed with timber planking.
She was based in Australia for some years but was sold overseas and is now in Hong Kong.
There is a (French) group who are working on trying to raise funds to get a third HMS Bounty built somewhere in the Pacific.
I was aware of the NZ Bounty but not the Nova Scotia one. So when i heard about the sinking i assumed it was the NZ Bounty - hence was a little mystified by the references to sprung planking.
When i was young i lived on Norfolk Island and met many direct descendents of the mutineers. Many years later i studied maritime archaeology at university - a former boatbuilding colleague (we were both apprentices) spent a season excavating the original Bounty's remains on Pitcairn Island.
I'm very saddened at the loss of life. Hopefully the investigation will make clear just what happened that resulted in this tragic sinking.
Sherrin

[GordMay]

Greetings and welcome aboard the CF, CaptLes.

[hpeer]

Stumbled across this video of Bount on National Geographic. From 1960.

Nice. We were in Lunenburg this summer, saw the New Bluenose on the ways.

Real nice museum there. You can dock at the museum wharf, between exhibit boats.


Video -- Exclusive H.M.S. Bounty Video: Sandy Casualty's 1960 Debut -- National Geographic

[Rakuflames]

Originally Posted by Captain Jeffry

Good question. Doing a good job with the down low so far.

I think those investigating this terrible incident have asked the crew to not go public for now until all the facts and circumstances can be gathered up and organized in a logical way that can be dispassionately evaluated.

There are some serious legal issues here. Certainly the loved ones of the two that died as well as the two crew who were injured might have grounds for a lawsuit, and conceivably all the crew might have such grounds. I think there are legal forces at work here we aren't necessarily aware of or someone would have been giving interviews by now.

[Svan]

Some points of fact.

The indecision by the NWS about whether to call Sandy a hurricane related solely to its source of energy. Hurricanes, as tropical cyclones, draw energy from the warm ocean. Ordinary storms draw their energy from the temperature differentials in the atmosphere. This change happened when the hurricane merged with a sizeable low-pressure system.

You can see the storm bulk up nearly 2-3x in diameter while it's abeam Florida: SANDY Graphics Archive sometime on Friday. That must have been an oh-**** moment aboard Bounty.

The question about when to depart the boat may have been influenced by darkness. The first distress call was at 1830, the order to abandon given at 0400.

[Rakuflames]

Originally Posted by Svan

Some points of fact.

The indecision by the NWS about whether to call Sandy a hurricane related solely to its source of energy. Hurricanes, as tropical cyclones, draw energy from the warm ocean. Ordinary storms draw their energy from the temperature differentials in the atmosphere. This change happened when the hurricane merged with a sizeable low-pressure system.

You can see the storm bulk up nearly 2-3x in diameter while it's abeam Florida: SANDY Graphics Archive sometime on Friday. That must have been an oh-**** moment aboard Bounty.

The question about when to depart the boat may have been influenced by darkness. The first distress call was at 1830, the order to abandon given at 0400.

And we know they had no power by then.

Almost always, these kinds of tragedies are caused by a cascade of events. I personally think the boat was essentially sound, having recently gone through an extensive refit.

[carstenb]

This will a longish post -sorry

A couple of years ago a Danish schooner, the Martha, issued a distress call, due to excess water in the bilges. They were only a few kilometers from shore, several rescue boats made it out to the Martha carrying really high powered pumps which were ferried over to the ship and started.
For a while they were able to stem the incurrance of the water and a tow line was attached to townthe boat the 10 kilometers to the nearesr port. All the crew except the captain and a mate were taken off.

Suddenly the water intake increased dramtically and the boat sank within seconds. Unfortunately the captain and the mate were below at the time and went down with the ship.

Why did this happen? Wooden sailing ships have caulking between the planks. This is what makes the ship watertight. Back when Martha was built, and bounty. This caulking was tar soaked rope, that wasnpounded (wedged) in between the planks. If this was not continually checked and maintained, it would spring out and the hull would leak. Once a piece sprang out, the rest would follow, thereby increasing the inflow.

Perhaps this is what happened to the bounty. Once started, this type of leak will only increase until it becomes catastrophic.

Carsten

[GaryMayo]

The only teams of lawyers larger than the ones massing on this event are the ones grouping for Nov 6th

Lawyers are necessary but it should be discouraged to huddle. Lol

The latest drydock folks I wager have spent more than they made working on the ship, in retaining counsel just to protect themselves.

[Panope]

In the Video posted previously, The Captain was interviewed and said:

"We chase hurricanes" (said with a smile).
"We get a good ride out of it" (chasing hurricanes).
"70 waves were not uncomfortable"
"The engines are undersized"
"We sail to our destinations"
"Square riggers do not go to windward"
"The fastest speed we have seen was 12 knots under bare poles in 95m.p.h. wids"

Is it possible that the captain viewed the coming hurricane with its strong southerly winds as an opportunity (for traveling south) not to be missed?

Steve

[Panope]

oops. Strong northerly winds not southerly.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Panope

In the Video posted previously, The Captain was interviewed and said:

"We chase hurricanes" (said with a smile).
"We get a good ride out of it" (chasing hurricanes).
"70 waves were not uncomfortable"
"The engines are undersized"
"We sail to our destinations"
"Square riggers do not go to windward"
"The fastest speed we have seen was 12 knots under bare poles in 95m.p.h. wids"

Is it possible that the captain viewed the coming hurricane with its strong southerly winds as an opportunity (for traveling south) not to be missed?

Steve

I watched the video, too, and I hate to speak ill of the dead, but he did not make a good impression. You left out also the 70' waves. . .

[minaret]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

I watched the video, too, and I hate to speak ill of the dead, but he did not make a good impression. You left out also the 70' waves. . .

I got the strong impression that those were the words of a captain who realizes his boat is a business which survives on a certain mystique. I would take it all with a big fat grain of salt. He might tell a reporter in an interview that they chase hurricanes and 70' waves aren't uncomfortable to them, but I doubt his conversation would take the same course at the bar with some salts who know better. Just trying to bring in the rubes, IMHO...

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by minaret

I got the strong impression that those were the words of a captain who realizes his boat is a business which survives on a certain mystique. I would take it all with a big fat grain of salt. He might tell a reporter in an interview that they chase hurricanes and 70' waves aren't uncomfortable to them, but I doubt his conversation would take the same course at the bar with some salts who know better. Just trying to bring in the rubes, IMHO...

A charitable interpretation, and maybe even right

Thanks for that - I would really like to think that's what it was all about. . .