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Captain Bill · 01-11-2012, 20:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by zeehag

i havebeen in enough. i know what they pack and how they deliver it. i also know tht when a path is OUTSIDE a hurricane zone--way outside o fit, there will still b eseas, HOWEVER, the bounty was no tin seas, were they?? they wer ein 13 ft seas, per uscg. they were in 40 mph winds , per uscg. those are NOT hurricane parameters, are they??!! a these were published and i didnt understand the discrepancy, i LOOKED UP THE PATH on bounty's site and found awesome incredible wonderment-- they were not in or near the hurricane nor were they in danger of being so. west side and out of it. been in gom in hurricane. was on west side of it--not a bad place to be. but we were inside cone --they were not.
i have been watching and studying weather--how to read it, how to understand it, and how to sail in it, all my life. i am old. i am not a stupid person, and i am very interested in many things, and i know about those things.
i have lived in cyclonic COLD storms for over 20 years in kali every winter. i know how cyclonic storms work and how they travel and how they ..guess what-there is suchuvathang as hurricanes in pacific ocean in mexico--did you know that????
..... my knowledge is not the point. nor is yours.
the fact is they were NOT IN THE HURRICANE NOR NEAR THE CONE AT ANY TIME IN THEIR TRIP--look it up. is posted and on their sites easy to read and plain as daylight in tropix. (presuming, of course, that one knows how to read these tracks. is quite simple.)

Since you seem to be relying on the forecast cone to justify your position, perhaps you should actually learn what the cone means. It simply is a probability plot of where the center of the storm is likely to pass based on computer models. It says nothing about the limits of the wind field or whether they were in the hurricane or not.

Stray-Cat · 01-11-2012, 20:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by LEOCAT66

I would have sailed with him on that day, as he had proven himself, and his ship, over time. I do not feel that Sandy was, as has been pointed out by Zeehag, the cause of this tragedy, as the Bounty was well away from the hurricane conditions and was in the proper location, at the time of the loss, to weather the blow successfully. Many an offshore yacht could and have passed successfully through the same course, under the same conditions without mishap. Something else seems to be in play here. Many have suggested planking issues as the most likely, and water ingress too emense to overcome. Hopefully at some point we will learn more.

Many threads on the forum starting around the 24th giving a heads up on Sandy
If I was a crewman I would object to the decision to leave port
Even knowing that my decision meant that I was no longer part of the crew
Again, I would not have gone

No amount of coaxing from the very experienced captain on his abilities to chase or skirt around hurricanes would convince me otherwise
I understand, get home itis/ peer pressure/herd mentality on boats

In my 20's or 30's I may have gone ,in my 50's I am conservative

KnuckleDragger · 01-11-2012, 20:41

ZEE...this is what YOU said on 10/29, just a couple of days ago. (post #120. LOOK IT UP as you keep telling people):

"BOUNTY WAS IN A HURRICANE. some folks do not seem to understand this fact."

Really hard to take your posts seriously when you flipflop...

Captain Jeffry · 01-11-2012, 20:54

This just posted on HMS Bounty Facebook page. Don't know if you have to 'like' to watch

8 bells~
https://www.facebook.com/brian.bird....ty#!/HMSBounty

GaryMayo · 01-11-2012, 20:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by zeehag

i havebeen in enough. i know what they pack and how they deliver it. i also know tht when a path is OUTSIDE a hurricane zone--way outside o fit, there will still b eseas, HOWEVER, the bounty was no tin seas, were they?? they wer ein 13 ft seas, per uscg. they were in 40 mph winds , per uscg. those are NOT hurricane parameters, are they??!! a these were published and i didnt understand the discrepancy, i LOOKED UP THE PATH on bounty's site and found awesome incredible wonderment-- they were not in or near the hurricane nor were they in danger of being so. west side and out of it. been in gom in hurricane. was on west side of it--not a bad place to be. but we were inside cone --they were not.
i have been watching and studying weather--how to read it, how to understand it, and how to sail in it, all my life. i am old. i am not a stupid person, and i am very interested in many things, and i know about those things.
i have lived in cyclonic COLD storms for over 20 years in kali every winter. i know how cyclonic storms work and how they travel and how they ..guess what-there is suchuvathang as hurricanes in pacific ocean in mexico--did you know that????
..... my knowledge is not the point. nor is yours.
the fact is they were NOT IN THE HURRICANE NOR NEAR THE CONE AT ANY TIME IN THEIR TRIP--look it up. is posted and on their sites easy to read and plain as daylight in tropix. (presuming, of course, that one knows how to read these tracks. is quite simple.)

I much respect your experience and your friendship to all of us on this forum, but it is rationalizing like this, that ended the days of HMS Bounty, and cost two people their lives.

Always better to be on the side of prudence. It is not prudent to sail into this: ( image is from half a day before the first distress report was made)

Captain Jeffry · 01-11-2012, 21:10

I have to wonder.. The sailing plan was to head south.. and if the scheduled events in Florida were a month away, would the Bounty have headed south the day she did... Sorry, I know it's not a question that can ever be answered.. but its a valid question...

GaryMayo · 01-11-2012, 21:13

News Release NSCG
Date: Nov. 01, 2012
Contact: 5th District Public Affairs
Office: (757) 398-6272

Coast Guard suspends search for
missing captain of HMS Bounty

PORTSMOUTH, Va. — The Coast Guard
suspended its search Thursday for the missing
captain of the HMS Bounty 200 miles southeast
of Hatteras, N.C.

Missing is Robin Walbridge, 63.

“Our thoughts and prayers are with the
Walbridge and Christian families," said Capt.
Doug Cameron, the chief of incident
response for the Coast Guard 5th District.
”Suspending a search and rescue case is one of
the hardest decisions we have to make.”

The following Coast Guard assets assisted in the
search:

HC-130 Hercules aircrews from Elizabeth City,
N.C. and Clearwater, Fla.
MH-60 Jayhawk crews from Air Station
Elizabeth City
Coast Guard HC-144 Ocean Sentry crews from
Miami, Fla.
Crew aboard the Coast Guard Cutter Elm, a
225-foot buoy tender homeported in Atlantic
Beach, N.C.
Crew aboard the Coast Guard Cutter Gallatin, a
378-foot high-endurance cutter homeported in
Charleston, S.C.

Coast Guard crews searched more than 90
hours, covering approximately 12,000
overlapping square nautical miles in the Atlantic
Ocean since the Bounty's crew abandoned ship
Monday morning.

###

Saving Lives and Guarding the Coast Since 1790.
The United States Coast Guard -- Proud History. Powerful Future.

http://www.uscgnews.com/go/doc/4007/...-of-HMS-Bounty

Celestialsailor · 01-11-2012, 21:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain Bill

Zee,
I don't know how many hurricanes that you've been in, if any, because your statement demonstrates that you don't know anything about hurricanes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by zeehag

i havebeen in enough. i know what they pack and how they deliver it.

No offense Zee...but after some of your statements on other threads such as Mahogany a bad weather wood and your knowledge of lightning protection, I think I would like to know exactly which hurricanes you have been in. I think your statements tend to out-weigh your experience.

Captain Jeffry · 01-11-2012, 21:33

C'mon. we all make judgements, form opinions about things we hear or see many times a day. Most of the time it is with few actual facts Plus, we see facts and details differently. Turn on any news source, audio or visual, and you will form an opinion. That's what's going on here and none of us has all the facts...and no one is being disrespectful.

In a very meaningful way..I like hearing what people think and observe about big events. Even very sad tragedies like this.

GaryMayo · 01-11-2012, 22:01

On the Bounty facebook page, on October 21, a crew member says he is sorry he missed the boat, literally. Says he will catch up to them in the spring. I hope he was not the one in charge of whatever system failed when they needed it most.

What must this crew member be feeling about now. Relief, or heavy burden? Glad I am not in his shoes.

Reading and watching videos of interviews with the captain, a crew of 25 or more is needed to fully operate the ships needs. I would think in a blow, all hands would be working and no one is napping. With a crew of just 16, how would it be possible to sail a ship such as this in heavy seas when a much larger crew is the standard for normal sailing?

I think the crew was way thin, in numbers and possibly in combined experience, and I think the decision to sail south, hugging the dangerous coastline where so many ships have gone to their graves, in the face of a hurricane sized storm is why the events turned out like they did.

Yes, they may have made it, with the storm filling their sails all the way to Florida. I assume that was the captains plans. Ride the storm. What if the storm had come inland sooner, and came straight at him? What would have been his contingency for that?

It is clear, we have a tragedy that could have been avoided, and should have been. This does not look like an accident of circumstances. This looks like failure to play the game of chess several moves in advance. Checkmate.

Richard5 · 01-11-2012, 22:01

The loss of the captain and crew of HMS Bounty is a tragedy amongst tragedies.

This storm was labeled a freak storm not by media but by the NWS forecasters. While technically correct, Zeehag's argument is of little consequence to the damage done to human life and property.

The forecasters themselves labeled this storm, "Frankenstorm" as a nod to Mary Shelly's work (of a grotesque monster), how dangerous the storm, and to describe how widespread it's impact.

Sandy was a hurricane in the lower lats but rather than slow down and disperse as it moved north it gained speed, momentum, and strength. Without a discernable eye and eye wall, the forecasters had reason to avoid relabeling Sandy as a 'cane. There was also the consideration of how the lable as "hurricane" may cause panic. Already I have heard how the NWS regrets this action.

Also, there was a significant cold front to the west of Sandy. The meeting of Sandy and that front resulted in the predicted sever weather which included heavy blizzard conditions. It is notable that these weather phenomena occured in the "safe" semicircle usually associated with hurricanes.

As longtime student of meterology, a commercial pilot, and as a life long mariner, I am supremely interested in the weather. My knowledge thereof surpasses the layman's interest although I admit my knowledge is incomplete. Having said that, I too am very confused as to how Bounty was there. But having witness tragedy at sea, having come close myself, I am quite reluctant to cast my suspicions on the actions of the captain of the HMS Bounty. By all accounts, I have reason to believe he was very experienced and knowledgeable. I am keen to learn what can be learned from this event.

xymotic · 01-11-2012, 22:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richard5

But having witness tragedy at sea, having come close myself, I am quite reluctant to cast my suspicions on the actions of the captain of the HMS Bounty. By all accounts, I have reason to believe he was very experienced and knowledgeable. I am keen to learn what can be learned from this event.

This is purely speculation, and my opinion... but judging his comments in the video, it seems to me that he wasn't fully cognizant of the difference between a 70' swell and a 20' wave. His 'chasing hurricanes' comment indicate to me that he'd been in/near a number of them and thought he knew how they worked. (though for the life of me I can't explain why he 'got in front of it') He had been through a 70' sea and thought "no biggie: and so naturally thought He could handle this one too.

GaryMayo · 01-11-2012, 22:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by xymotic

This is purely speculation, and my opinion... but judging his comments in the video, it seems to me that he wasn't fully cognizant of the difference between a 70' swell and a 20' wave. His 'chasing hurricanes' comment indicate to me that he'd been in/near a number of them and thought he knew how they worked. (though for the life of me I can't explain why he 'got in front of it') He had been through a 70' sea and thought "no biggie: and so naturally thought He could handle this one too.

I noticed that as well. Was his flippant attitude because he was just one more cub newsman asking the same old same old, or did he really not understand the rodeo he was ridding into?

His attitude was like he was taking a vintage mussle car to a car show at a shopping center. No big deal. I did not get the impression he was afraid of his job. In any job, once the fear is gone, once you no longer respect the dangers, you should walk away, because you are going to hurt yourself, or other people.