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Old 30-10-2012, 18:27   #211
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Re: Merged Threads: HMS Bounty

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Originally Posted by thompsonisland View Post
I *was* curious as to how many cans of sardines I might have to sacrifice to such a purpose...
A hell of allot.....
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Old 30-10-2012, 18:30   #212
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Re: Merged Threads: HMS Bounty

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A hell of allot.....
I'm sure reed has a brilliant suggestion for that too...
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Old 30-10-2012, 18:38   #213
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Re: Merged Threads: HMS Bounty

For those of you who thought there wasn't much of a sea running by looking at pictures from a helicopter, take a look at this video. Now imagine what the sea would look like without the boat in the video. Quite some difference.
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Old 30-10-2012, 18:42   #214
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Originally Posted by reed1v

the seas, at least in the photos of the sinking ship, dont look bad at all. not even spindrift. no sails up, so must have been motoring through the swells. that will stress the timbers. wonder if anyone was regularly checking the engines' fuel and air intakes. for both engines to give out sounds like either they suffocated or the fuel got contaminated with water. easy to do through the vents. we used a floating tank intake set to half foot below fuel level in order not to suck water from the bottom.
Try being down there. Pix from 100s+ of feet up never do the conditions justice. You see how much the water is stirred up around the sinking ship?
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Old 30-10-2012, 18:47   #215
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Re: Merged Threads: HMS Bounty

What gets me about that video whenever I see it is the motion and heading change. I can't believe that boat - which arguably turns through 80-100 degrees- didn't gybe at some point.

Also the corkscrew action must be totally unnerving.

That is why all things considered my preferred storm plan is a series "anchor" off the bow.

I understand the stern drogue would help the corkscrewing but then you are getting pooped. I also understand there are times (sea room) that you don't have a choice.
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Old 30-10-2012, 18:58   #216
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Re: Merged Threads: HMS Bounty

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What gets me about that video whenever I see it is the motion and heading change. I can't believe that boat - which arguably turns through 80-100 degrees- didn't gybe at some point.

Also the corkscrew action must be totally unnerving.

That is why all things considered my preferred storm plan is a series "anchor" off the bow.

I understand the stern drogue would help the corkscrewing but then you are getting pooped. I also understand there are times (sea room) that you don't have a choice.
the dreaded 'round down' is always a mess to clean up... Great helmsman!

Agree with bow config.
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Old 30-10-2012, 19:02   #217
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Re: Merged Threads: HMS Bounty

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the dreaded 'round down' is always a mess to clean up... Good helmsmen!

Agree with bow config.
Exactly - You gotta believe there is an "Active Captain" helming that boat.

How good ya gotta be and how long can you last making every helm input "perfect" - fatigue is gonna get ya...

Oops - gotta be careful about thread drift - sorry...
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Old 30-10-2012, 19:58   #218
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Re: Merged Threads: HMS Bounty

I don't have a lot to say about this tragedy. Except on Wednesday, before the ship left port to head South, the NWS gave Sandy the position of 24.5N, 75.6W, headed generally North/Northwest with a pressure of 963MB, and winds gusting 90Kts. to 110Kts. Given the satelite images available before the ship left showing a radius of several hundred miles, and the weather forecast, the decision to leave port in my opinion, terminated in a result that could have been expected. The Bounty was a sail training, recreational movie prop, and there was no justfication I can think of that would have justified risking the lives of the crew by leaving port.
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Old 30-10-2012, 21:17   #219
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May those that perished rest in peace, but I still say the Captain screwed up big time!
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Old 30-10-2012, 22:39   #220
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Re: Merged Threads: HMS Bounty

I have read here that Bounty is awash but not sunk and that there may be an effort to salvage her.

Sounds unlikely, but we'll see what develops.
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Old 30-10-2012, 22:43   #221
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TEE
I don't have a lot to say about this tragedy. Except on Wednesday, before the ship left port to head South, the NWS gave Sandy the position of 24.5N, 75.6W, headed generally North/Northwest with a pressure of 963MB, and winds gusting 90Kts. to 110Kts. Given the satelite images available before the ship left showing a radius of several hundred miles, and the weather forecast, the decision to leave port in my opinion, terminated in a result that could have been expected. The Bounty was a sail training, recreational movie prop, and there was no justfication I can think of that would have justified risking the lives of the crew by leaving port.
You point out a correct observation. The captain did not set a sail plan east, going out to sea around the approaching hurricane, it looks like he headed straight for the storm, in a southerly direction.

The captain was in charge of more ship than most of us will be. He was in charge of more crew than most of us will ever be. His responsibilities were greater than most of us will ever face, and he was doing it on a floating make believe Disneyland for adults that wish to travel back two hundred plus years to sail on tall ships.

How many of you would have taken his shoes and pointed such a ship towards this storm? Or sailed East? How many of you would have trippled and quadrupled the mooring lines and faced the storm in the harbor?

There would have no way I would have set sail or motored out of the place the ship was to head out into open sea.

If I owned the boat, and wanted her safety above all else, I would not direct my captain to set sail for open sea headed towards the storm.

I would say, with as much time as has gone by, the captain is dead, and we can asume, went down with his ship. His true motivies for his actions can never be questioned.

A board of inquiry will convene and all the evidence will be measured, and when the ruling is presented, politics will be served over justice, as is most always the case. By the time it is all settled, everyone will be more interested in who is dating who in Hollywood, what the latest video game is, and who will win the world series. The announcement will be hidden on page seventeen on the Friday afternoon paper of a four day weekend, and by Monday, it will all be forgotten.

RIP all the men, women and children who died as a result of hurricane Sandy, death toll now over 50 and possibly more. May all those 8 million homes without power, millions of people without transportation, countless people without food and fresh water be comforted, and may all the members here, be forever spaired such challenges.
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Old 31-10-2012, 03:28   #222
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Re: Merged Threads: HMS Bounty

An administrator at GCaptain kindly sent me this link: Hurricane Survival – No Place for Absolutes | gCaptain - Maritime & Offshore News

with comments from the Coast Guard's top rescue swimmer. Very interesting stuff.
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Old 31-10-2012, 04:03   #223
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Re: Merged Threads: HMS Bounty

Agreed, It is easy to be an armchair Captain. (as someone once said - The best Captains are the ones on the pier). But at the risk of being labelled an armchair captain, I just have to say, I can't imagine what the Bounty's Captain was thinking about.

Given the choice, harbour is the best place to be when something like Sandy comes along. At least for the safety of the crew. I know the old saying "The boat will survive if we just get out to where there is enough water under the keel". But in a hurricane?

We'll probably never know for sure. I hope the inquest sheds some real light on this. He was a very experienced Captain and he must have had his reasons.
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Old 31-10-2012, 05:22   #224
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Re: Merged Threads: HMS Bounty

She was built as a prop to be burned at the end of the film. When she was on the ways at Samples Shipyard in Boothbay harbor a number of years back she was a wreck. The yard did some major bottom work but she was rotten from the bull works to the water line. I knew one of the Master Shipwrights that worked on her. When I talked to him after she was off the ways. He said be careful where you step you could fall through the deck. My question is why didn't they come in to Norfolk when they had the chance. Knowing the history of the Outerbanks and the impending storm, Then again she has been up for sale for sometime... I smell a rat... To bad the Captian and one of the crew lost their life. We will never know. It reaks of poor judgment too me.
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Old 31-10-2012, 05:49   #225
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Re: HMS Bounty abandoned in Hurricane Sandy

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I reserve the word "brave" for people who know the dangers, but risk them anyway because of their sense of duty, or because they are trying to do the right thing. The Bounty set sail because they had a schedule to keep. I don't call that "brave."

Zeehag is ABSOLUTELY RIGHT. She said CREW. They followed their captain's orders into terror and for one unfortunate crew-member, death. Unless they were going to mutiny, that's all they could do.

I call it extremely brave. I am quite sure the CREW was very brave. The Captain misjudge something. The owner may have told him to meet the schedule, but he had the right and obligation to keep his ship and crew out of harm's way. While this storm was big, it is possible he had no reason to expect such extreme dangers.

I will ASSUME the crew were stout and brave. I am reserving judgment on the captain. I don't know what information he had at the time.
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