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Old 02-04-2015, 07:08   #16
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Re: Liana's Ransom Abandoned at Sea

It has been towed to port.

Disabled tall ship towed to Eliot boatyard after crew's rescue - The Portland Press Herald / Maine Sunday Telegram
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Old 02-04-2015, 07:25   #17
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Re: Liana's Ransom Abandoned at Sea

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Originally Posted by hamburking View Post
You are quite right. The St Lawrence II, STV Pathfinder, and TS Playfair are 3 small brigantines that ply the waters of Lake Ontario as sail training vessels. The new regs have nearly bankrupt them. A steady stream of inspections and required ocean worthy upgrades, even though they spend almost all their time on a freshwater lake, near shore.

Also, their mission is to train youth, and historically had an all teen crew (13-18 years old) except for the captain. The new regs require more adults and older/trained "seamen" aboard, which radically changed the atmosphere onboard, where quarters are very tight.
Shortage of interest in the program is what caused them financial heartache. And bad press from under regulated tall ships sinking and bad decisions made by poorly regulated tall ship captains.

I would say requiring a second 18 year old SVMO on board a boat with 18 teenagers on board was hardly too much to ask for. The brigantines are safer than ever now. I would hardly call the middle of Lake Superior or northern Lake Huron near shore.

I would be interested to hear which requirements you think were excessive. The steady stream of inspections? It's an annual inspection. Once per year, that is hardly too much to expect from a vessel plying the great lakes with 18 paying youth on board.

The Concordia, the bounty and now the Lianas Ransom. That's 3 traditional type sailing ships in 4 years. Two of them Canadian. Interesting you think they are over regulated.

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Old 02-04-2015, 08:45   #18
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Re: Liana's Ransom Abandoned at Sea

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Originally Posted by Dockhead View Post
I would hardly call an 85-foot gaffer a "tall ship".

They were motoring South with N winds "gusting to 30 knots". Downwind in a F6. I wonder why they were motoring? Those are ideal sailing conditions even for the most piggish motor sailer.
Exactly. I would salvage this if I could. It's only twice the LOA of my own steel sailboat and I reckon the crew gave up too soon, although I'm willing to acknowledge the proximity of an armchair in that assessment. I'm not sure why they couldn't get at least one foresail hoisted to just run at reduced speed (if probably against current) or to attempt heaving to.
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Old 02-04-2015, 08:48   #19
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Re: Liana's Ransom Abandoned at Sea

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Oh no! This was only a seventeen year-old steel-hulled character boat, but since it was a "pirate ship", and a dockside attraction, the entire tallship community is going to be plagued with another battery of arbitrary Coast Guard decisions as were imposed after similar "bad luck" struck HMS Bounty in 2012.
Seven years, not 17. It was built according to the article in 2007.
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Old 02-04-2015, 08:55   #20
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Re: Liana's Ransom Abandoned at Sea

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Originally Posted by S/V Alchemy View Post
Exactly. I would salvage this if I could. It's only twice the LOA of my own steel sailboat and I reckon the crew gave up too soon, although I'm willing to acknowledge the proximity of an armchair in that assessment. I'm not sure why they couldn't get at least one foresail hoisted to just run at reduced speed (if probably against current) or to attempt heaving to.
Looking closely at the pictures posted above, the mast and rigging look to be only "cosmetic" and not actually functional. Steel pipe masts, flimsy stays that only go part way up the mast, and looking closely I don't see anything that looks like a backstay, or even running backstays. Also can't see anything that looks like a turnbuckle, which should be pretty pronounced on a vessel of 85'.

If it is really a powerboat with pretend rigging, you would think they would have their engines in better working order before starting a long ocean passage. However, I say that only because their engines failed, I have no knowledge of their preparations.

Thankfully, no lives were lost.
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Old 02-04-2015, 08:59   #21
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Re: Liana's Ransom Abandoned at Sea

From the video on TV the conditions were not that bad. Just another case of a inexperienced crew abandoning a perfectly seaworthy vessel because they were uncomfortable! Insurance company have to stop paying these claims and all our rates would be lower!
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Old 02-04-2015, 09:06   #22
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Re: Liana's Ransom Abandoned at Sea

She must have been scarey unstable if the Captain elected to abandon in two metre seas.

Interesting that she has a centre board on a high free board steel schooner. The Fair Jeane is of similar design but bigger 110 ft. I've heard former crew remark that she has a scarey motion at sea.

Does anybody know registry details of Lianas Ransom, I can't find any record of her being registered in Canada via a routine search in Transport Canada's Vessel Registration Query System.

I would love to sit down for an hour with this vessels stability book. Details on the website are fairly informative. A centre board and 25000 lbs of ballast, just over 10 tons.

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Old 02-04-2015, 10:31   #23
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Re: Liana's Ransom Abandoned at Sea

It really is a shame to see this sort of thing repeat itself over an over.

I see this boat frequently in Halifax. I held a commercial ticket and ran a similar sized old gaffer here in the same harbor for 6 years - although that one was a real bluewater boat, not a pirate reproduction.

Folks - this is not about regulations at all. It is about putting the wrong boat, in the wrong hands, in the wrong place, at the wrong time.

Doesn't matter what regulations there are this can and will still occur- unless we're going to regulate the **** out of all recreational sailing (she was not underway as a commercial vessel - she was in transit as a yacht); and be prepared to triple or quadruple enforcement agency budgets to account for it. I doubt many of us would be happy about that.

Head over to gcaptain.com and read Mario Vittone's excellent piece on this. Check his resume too for perspective on why can say what he says.

He says all there is to say on the matter; fairly, openly and without prejudice.
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Old 02-04-2015, 10:34   #24
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Re: Liana's Ransom Abandoned at Sea

I personally have a lot of issues about the quality of seamanship that surrounds some of the " tall ship" industry. often i see crew especially so called " trainees" who know nothing about sailing vessels

this stuff will keep happening until its stopped by the regulators
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Old 02-04-2015, 10:57   #25
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Re: Liana's Ransom Abandoned at Sea

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It really is a shame to see this sort of thing repeat itself over an over.

I see this boat frequently in Halifax. I held a commercial ticket and ran a similar sized old gaffer here in the same harbor for 6 years - although that one was a real bluewater boat, not a pirate reproduction.

Folks - this is not about regulations at all. It is about putting the wrong boat, in the wrong hands, in the wrong place, at the wrong time.

Doesn't matter what regulations there are this can and will still occur- unless we're going to regulate the **** out of all recreational sailing (she was not underway as a commercial vessel - she was in transit as a yacht); and be prepared to triple or quadruple enforcement agency budgets to account for it. I doubt many of us would be happy about that.

Head over to gcaptain.com and read Mario Vittone's excellent piece on this. Check his resume too for perspective on why can say what he says.

He says all there is to say on the matter; fairly, openly and without prejudice.
I'm not following your logic here. They intentionally registered their decidedly commercial vessel a yacht, the reason you do that is to dodge regulators. I am sure they registered yacht because the boat didn't have adequate safety equipment or adequately trained crew to achieve Transport Canada Near Coastal Certification. This very much is about regulations.

If the boat had been properly inspected TCMSS would have slapped a do not sail order on her and shed still be tied up in Hamilton.



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Old 02-04-2015, 11:37   #26
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Re: Liana's Ransom Abandoned at Sea

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I hope the bartender was wearing a hard-hat!
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Old 02-04-2015, 12:00   #27
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Re: Liana's Ransom Abandoned at Sea

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Gaffers have been sailing those waters safely for hundreds of years, without getting sails wrapped around their masts.
... and without engines or generators.

Am I missing something here? I'm hesitant to second-guess another skipper, but those are normal sailing conditions offshore here around San Francisco, and as skipper, I'd have run the calculus of "path of lowest risk" -- which is the greater risk to my crew: staying aboard and waiting for a salvager to tow my vessel, or calling the Coasties for an at-sea rescue? Staying aboard and waiting it out would be my choice.

But you can't hold your crew hostage. If they panic and want off, you may find yourself sailing single handed, provided the Coast Guard doesn't order you off your boat when they arrive (like they did with the skipper of S/V Satori). Moral of the story: don't go to sea with unseasoned crew.

I've had moments when my own crews would get that bug-eyed panicked look in rough seas. When they did, I send the most panicked in the group down below to report on whether the water was waist deep in the cabin. When he returned and reported that no water was found. I'd say: "Good! Then the boat can't sink."
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Old 02-04-2015, 12:28   #28
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Re: Liana's Ransom Abandoned at Sea

One of the better articles:
Playing Pirate Does Not a Sailor Make - gCaptain Maritime & Offshore News
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Old 02-04-2015, 13:00   #29
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Re: Liana's Ransom Abandoned at Sea

Ryan Tilley, the 24-year-old captain of the Nova Scotia vessel, said the rescue unfolded after several mechanical breakdowns.
"In all my times in sailing I'd never seen that many things go wrong that quickly. I thought it was quite improbable but I guess we're living proof it can happen," he said

Uh huh...24 yrs old...In all my times
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Old 02-04-2015, 13:03   #30
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Re: Liana's Ransom Abandoned at Sea

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... Am I missing something here? ...
I just read Mario Vittone's article on gcaptain.com and, yes, I was missing something. It wasn't a sailboat - it was a motorboat dressed up as a sailboat.
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