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Old 24-01-2012, 21:02   #241
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozbullwinkle

David - my thoughts exactly as echoed in my post above.

Jedi - No worries, we'll just agree to disagree about Laura "taking the record"

Yes, this is Laura's thread and I had not posted on it before but Hirophants comments needed a reply which is why I responded.
Neither Guinness world records or the World sailing speed record council recognise young record attempts. They can not be called " records" in the conventional sense

It's also a fact that the WSSRC did not accept Jessica Watkins claim, either as they do not have a " youngest" record nor did they accept that Watsons route as a circumnavigation

All these young people are fabulous, record holders they are not

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Old 24-01-2012, 21:15   #242
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Re: Laura Dekker's Circumnavigation

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Originally Posted by goboatingnow View Post
Neither Guinness world records or the World sailing speed record council recognise young record attempts. They can not be called " records" in the conventional sense

It's also a fact that the WSSRC did not accept Jessica Watkins claim, either as they do not have a " youngest" record nor did they accept that Watsons route as a circumnavigation

All these young people are fabulous, record holders they are not
Ah but we don't really care about Guinness world records (we do care about Guinness though, let there be no mistake ) or the WSSRC for recognizing these records. They are records but just not ones recognized by these clubs.

ciao!
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Old 24-01-2012, 21:17   #243
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Re: Laura Dekker's Circumnavigation

Laura's circumnavigation was not one for the record books really, at least from her perspective. While it is true that she was and is often called the youngest to sail around the world, her voyage was less of an attempt to set a record and get into the history books; as I wrote in an early post, her trip was a voyage of self discovery

In her own blog she states:

Quote:
By the way I am not disappointed at all that the Guinness Book of World Records won't recognize my attempt. Back in 2009 Mike Perham was recognized as the last ever of the now abolished youngest circumnavigator category. In any case I did not start on my trip to achieve any record but I did it just for myself.
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Old 24-01-2012, 21:55   #244
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Re: Laura Dekker's Circumnavigation

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Originally Posted by s/v Jedi View Post
Ah but we don't really care about Guinness world records (we do care about Guinness though, let there be no mistake ) or the WSSRC for recognizing these records. They are records but just not ones recognized by these clubs.

ciao!
Nick.
Who gives a toss about the WSSRC. Neither young lady needs them.

Guinness is another matter.
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Old 24-01-2012, 23:42   #245
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Re: Laura Dekker's Circumnavigation

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Laura's circumnavigation was not one for the record books really, at least from her perspective.
In her own blog she states:
Quote:
Back in 2009 Mike Perham was recognized as the last ever of the now abolished youngest circumnavigator category.
Now there's the real rivalry between Laura and Jessica! ;-) As I recall, it was said that Laura sailed across the North Sea to England in 2009 in the hope of being able to welcome him home! (She sailed over to England the very same day he finished his circumnavigation - coincidence? No way!) (But the UK police arrested her for being precocious or some such trumped up charge so she didn't get to meet him AFAIK.)
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Old 25-01-2012, 00:32   #246
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Re: Laura Dekker's Circumnavigation

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Now there's the real rivalry between Laura and Jessica! ;-) As I recall, it was said that Laura sailed across the North Sea to England in 2009 in the hope of being able to welcome him home! (She sailed over to England the very same day he finished his circumnavigation - coincidence? No way!) (But the UK police arrested her for being precocious or some such trumped up charge so she didn't get to meet him AFAIK.)
I like that angle.
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Old 25-01-2012, 00:37   #247
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Re: Laura Dekker's Circumnavigation

Jessica has certainly caught up with him. Has Laura ?
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Old 25-01-2012, 01:10   #248
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Re: Laura Dekker's Circumnavigation

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Jessica has certainly caught up with him. Has Laura ?
They have both achieve major goals at a very early state in their respective lives - equality in difference. The question that you should ask your self is IF you have achieved the same level within your personal sailing, cruising goals. Why try and establish some sort of a rivalry. They are both exceptional sailors and people mature beyond their respective ages who i hold in the highest regard.
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Old 25-01-2012, 01:29   #249
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Re: Laura Dekker's Circumnavigation

For twenty-five years I used to have racehorses, my passion of that era. Worse than boats moneywise. In any case Laura is not only a Derbywinner, she is a triple-crown winner because of her mental stability, her ambition and her strong will. She is capable to win friends all over the planet.
The New Zealand flag tells me all. She is however, clever enough to withhold speculations in saying that her "Dutch flag" was in tatters. Seeing how immaculate she is keeping and upgrading her "Guppy" I do not believe her in that station, but alas, she has every right to carry the flag of her nation of birth.
Laura' s triumph is so more valuable because she had to fight for her ambition.
The other girls in that respect sailed downwind whilst Laura had all the odds of a (partly criminal) governmental organisation against her. Stupid, mediocre officials but with unlimited resources. Nevertheless, in spite of all this headwind, she managed to get over it and win her case.
That, dear forummers, is the hard difference with the other contenders, so to speak. They didn' t have to fight - to them it was presented on a silver tablet.
Nobody gave Laura an Open 40. Instead she got an old Gin Fizz. No Point - she did what she planned to do. Without fuss.
That makes her the remarkable girl she is.
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Old 25-01-2012, 03:40   #250
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Re: Laura Dekker's Circumnavigation

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For twenty-five years I used to have racehorses, my passion of that era. Worse than boats moneywise. In any case Laura is not only a Derbywinner, she is a triple-crown winner because of her mental stability, her ambition and her strong will. She is capable to win friends all over the planet.
The New Zealand flag tells me all. She is however, clever enough to withhold speculations in saying that her "Dutch flag" was in tatters. Seeing how immaculate she is keeping and upgrading her "Guppy" I do not believe her in that station, but alas, she has every right to carry the flag of her nation of birth.
Laura' s triumph is so more valuable because she had to fight for her ambition.
The other girls in that respect sailed downwind whilst Laura had all the odds of a (partly criminal) governmental organisation against her. Stupid, mediocre officials but with unlimited resources. Nevertheless, in spite of all this headwind, she managed to get over it and win her case.
That, dear forummers, is the hard difference with the other contenders, so to speak. They didn' t have to fight - to them it was presented on a silver tablet.
Nobody gave Laura an Open 40. Instead she got an old Gin Fizz. No Point - she did what she planned to do. Without fuss.
That makes her the remarkable girl she is.
Yeah this is Laura's thread & remarkable she may be but when comments start saying that she is so much better than everyone before her they need to be challenged.

Let's leave Abby Sunderland out of discussions as she was very fortunate that she did not lose her life when she lost her Open 40 in the Southern Ocean and was rescued by the Australian Navy.

As far as Jessica Watsons achievement goes here are a few points that you obviously don't know.

- She skippered an old but refurbished S&S 34.

- On the first night at sea in her solo training run she collided with a freighter which as well as her vessel sustaining considerable damage really increased the opposition in Australia to her attempting a solo circumnavigation. It was not only the majority of the general public who were against her going for fear of her safety but also prominent marine organisations & polititians right up to the Prime Minister were against her voyage. She had a huge amount of pressure not to go.

- But, just like Laura, she was driven and had a dream and a desire to succeed and went anyway.

- Her voyage was solo & unassisted. No stopoffs along the way for hugs from family & supporters, nice hot meals & trips home and boat repairs.

- When the chips were down and the weather was smashing her she could not pull into the nearest anchorage and rest up then continue on later. She had nowhere to hide which takes a great deal of inner, mental as well as physical strength.

- A large proportion of her voyage was in the Southern Ocean where she encountered winds of 80 knots and several knockdowns and complete rollovers.

Laura & Jessica are both champions in their own right but what they did and achieved was completely different in totally different circumstances.
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Old 25-01-2012, 04:23   #251
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Re: Laura Dekker's Circumnavigation

I do not know about Jessica Watson aside from what I have been reading. I cannot comment on your points which have their own virtue. What I know was that the called collision with the Chinese coaler was on her account only and the pressure from Marine & Government was only pressure and no could stop her from going. As did this not happen.

Laura's case is different as I fought on the background, unknown to her, with her.
My brother, the lawyer, had hacked my computer to learn what I was planning to undertake to get her win her case.
Laura had not only the Government as a block, but also the public opinion. Only a tiny group of die-hard sponsors and friends supported her in her ambition.
Over the time the public opinion changed and people got more supportive and finally she is partially a Dutch girl, grown up in Holland, living on and with boats.

It is not a contest neither a rivalry between the two girls and it should not leading that way. Both did what they planned to do and had to overcome the agravity of the medocre, shallow ideas of John & Jane-in-the-street who never did themselves anything remarkable.
The worst capacity of people in general is to start with arguments not to do things outside the regular. I know that best myself when I came home to tell my family that I had bought my first racehorse at 19. And owning a racehorse in a Calvinistic community (of that era) is worse than marrying a pornstar!

So let it be. I never had a daughter, but a son who hates horses and boats ......
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Old 25-01-2012, 04:39   #252
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Re: Laura Dekker's Circumnavigation

MacG - I have neither a son or a daughter as the chips just didn't fall the right way for me. Maybe I'm lucky in some respects maybe they may have aspired to be a pornstar but I have a Dad who hates boats.

From my recollection, help me here, didn't Laura first want to set off on her circumnavigation when she was 14? Was this the main reason why the government became involved?
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Old 25-01-2012, 05:17   #253
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Re: Laura Dekker's Circumnavigation

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Originally Posted by Ozbullwinkle View Post
Yeah this is Laura's thread & remarkable she may be but when comments start saying that she is so much better than everyone before her they need to be challenged.

Let's leave Abby Sunderland out of discussions as she was very fortunate that she did not lose her life when she lost her Open 40 in the Southern Ocean and was rescued by the Australian Navy.

As far as Jessica Watsons achievement goes here are a few points that you obviously don't know.

- She skippered an old but refurbished S&S 34.

- On the first night at sea in her solo training run she collided with a freighter which as well as her vessel sustaining considerable damage really increased the opposition in Australia to her attempting a solo circumnavigation. It was not only the majority of the general public who were against her going for fear of her safety but also prominent marine organisations & polititians right up to the Prime Minister were against her voyage. She had a huge amount of pressure not to go.

- But, just like Laura, she was driven and had a dream and a desire to succeed and went anyway.

- Her voyage was solo & unassisted. No stopoffs along the way for hugs from family & supporters, nice hot meals & trips home and boat repairs.

- When the chips were down and the weather was smashing her she could not pull into the nearest anchorage and rest up then continue on later. She had nowhere to hide which takes a great deal of inner, mental as well as physical strength.

- A large proportion of her voyage was in the Southern Ocean where she encountered winds of 80 knots and several knockdowns and complete rollovers.

Laura & Jessica are both champions in their own right but what they did and achieved was completely different in totally different circumstances.
Neither record is official as no official record exists anymore. However, Laura is the youngest to sail around the world solo. Jessica is still (sort of) the youngest to sail around the world solo and non-stop. Two different records. Jessica used to (sort of) hold both and now holds one. Certainly Jessica's journey was the more arduous and dangerous of the two.

I say sort of because, unfortunately, Jessica didn't sail enough great circle miles from waypoint to waypoint to qualify as a circumnavigation by the usual rules. She did cross the equator, but needed to go marginally farther. I think she was poorly advised on this matter as there's absolutely no doubt she could have done it.

Instead of arguing about which young woman is better, I feel like we're just lucky as a sailing community two have two such amazing young role models active in the same generation. It's not about which did the cooler thing, it's about how great they both are and lucky we are to have them.
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Old 25-01-2012, 05:30   #254
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pirate Re: Laura Dekker's Circumnavigation

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Neither record is official as no official record exists anymore. However, Laura is the youngest to sail around the world solo. Jessica is still (sort of) the youngest to sail around the world solo and non-stop. Two different records. Jessica used to (sort of) hold both and now holds one. Certainly Jessica's journey was the more arduous and dangerous of the two.

I say sort of because, unfortunately, Jessica didn't sail enough great circle miles from waypoint to waypoint to qualify as a circumnavigation by the usual rules. She did cross the equator, but needed to go marginally farther. I think she was poorly advised on this matter as there's absolutely no doubt she could have done it.

Instead of arguing about which young woman is better, I feel like we're just lucky as a sailing community two have two such amazing young role models active in the same generation. It's not about which did the cooler thing, it's about how great they both are and lucky we are to have them.
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Old 25-01-2012, 05:44   #255
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Re: Laura Dekker's Circumnavigation

@CWyckham

Yes absolutely!

@Ozbullwinkle

I think that she had already this plan when she sailed solo - first Waddenzee and later crossing the Noordzee at 13. This is what I believe.
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