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Old 31-07-2010, 11:59   #106
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If she does die the question will be "Who is to blame?" along with lots of Monday morning quarterbacking, lawsuits and the whole nine yards.
In my opinion, she should be treated as a grown up and take responsibility on herself. If she can't do that she shouldn't go. So the answer is: same as if she were 20, she herself.

Many seems to object allowing her at her age, for a formal/legal/principal reason: Someone has responsibility on her, and it is not herself.

I believe: Either she goes herself, or not at all.

On the other hand, if she did die: Dick Dekker would be blamed and not be treated nicely by people with hidden name on the internet.

Laurence Sunderland was not treated nicely even if Abby was not even injured, she was only falsely declared dead by some for a day.
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Old 31-07-2010, 12:04   #107
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There's a bunch of cool **** kids can do when they are 14. They could sail pla es without trying to break a record. My thought pimp daddy
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Old 31-07-2010, 12:11   #108
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I have a question: If a boy, aged 16, has a motorcycle driver's licence, and drives a motorcycle recklessly and is killed in an accident without anyone outside involved. Who is to blame? Should his parents have allowed him as a child to drive a motorcycle? Should they get prison?

It seems that in the opinion of many, people under 18 are children and should not be allowed to do anything risky. Do you think so?
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Old 31-07-2010, 13:24   #109
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It seems that in the opinion of many, people under 18 are children and should not be allowed to do anything risky. Do you think so?
At some point, children become adults and become totally responsible for themselves. Many societies place that line at 18 years old.

If it is decided that 14 is old enough to judge risks to your own wellbeing then why should it stop at sailing? Why can't she join the army? Why can't she do drugs at 14? Surely the "age of consent" would need lowering? After all, she's an adult....

This is not a sailing issue. It matters not one jot if she can sail around the world with her eyes closed and one hand tied behind her back. The law cannot pick and choose - it cannot say you cannot make adult decisions until you are 18 unless you are Laura Dekker. The laws are set to govern the *bulk* of the population who, by 18, are often barely capable of deciding what to order from a menu.

If she does go circumnavigting then I hope she comes back safe and well, I really do, but if anything happens to her out there in the big blue ocean then she will have the privilege of becoming a legal test case and that seems a really dumb way to run a civilisation.

I don't think I have anything further to add on this topic. I'm done.
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Old 31-07-2010, 13:25   #110
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Originally Posted by bengtinge View Post
I have a question: If a boy, aged 16, has a motorcycle driver's licence, and drives a motorcycle recklessly and is killed in an accident without anyone outside involved. Who is to blame? Should his parents have allowed him as a child to drive a motorcycle? Should they get prison?

It seems that in the opinion of many, people under 18 are children and should not be allowed to do anything risky. Do you think so?
comparing Sailing non stop solo to riding a motorcyle
is like comparing kids on swings to kids in sand boxes. THere is no similarity. In all there is risk so the risk gets weighed with advantage. Im going with this is a stunt with unnecesary risk. Why? Pimp Daddy
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Old 31-07-2010, 13:37   #111
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At some point, children become adults and become totally responsible for themselves. Many societies place that line at 18 years old.

If it is decided that 14 is old enough to judge risks to your own wellbeing then why should it stop at sailing? Why can't she join the army? Why can't she do drugs at 14? Surely the "age of consent" would need lowering? After all, she's an adult....

This is not a sailing issue. It matters not one jot if she can sail around the world with her eyes closed and one hand tied behind her back. The law cannot pick and choose - it cannot say you cannot make adult decisions until you are 18 unless you are Laura Dekker. The laws are set to govern the *bulk* of the population who, by 18, are often barely capable of deciding what to order from a menu.

If she does go circumnavigting then I hope she comes back safe and well, I really do, but if anything happens to her out there in the big blue ocean then she will have the privilege of becoming a legal test case and that seems a really dumb way to run a civilisation.

I don't think I have anything further to add on this topic. I'm done.
The law (at least in my own country) already picks and chooses, and allows different ages for the judging of different risks. For example, a child of any age can cycle to school alone, a 14yr old is allowed to stay home alone while the parents are out of the house, a 15yr old is allowed to drive a car, a 16yr old is allowed to have sex, an 18yr old is allowed to buy alcohol, etc. etc. We certainly don't shelter our children from taking ANY risk until they are 18 (to do so would be absurd) and the law quite rightly only restricts certain selected risks, and each risk only until a certain age appropriate for that risk.

The argument, in my view, should then be "what is an appropriate age to sail alone?". In Australia they have set that age at 16. In The Netherlands they appear to have chosen a younger age. That does not imply that they believe a 14yr old should be allowed to take ALL risks at that age, however.
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Old 31-07-2010, 13:47   #112
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The law (at least in my own country) already picks and chooses, and allows different ages for the judging of different risks...

... and the law quite rightly only restricts certain selected risks, and each risk only until a certain age appropriate for that risk.

...The argument, in my view, should then be "what is an appropriate age to sail alone?"...
EXACTLY!
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Old 31-07-2010, 15:34   #113
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The thing that gets me is that people mature at different rates. I know some 12 year olds that I would leave at home by themselves and I know other 21 year olds that I wouldn't leave even with supervision. Seems to me that a more appropriate thing to do would be to have the ability to "challenge" the age restriction. Some sort of test of relevant skills needed. The government has settled on average ages. The average 16 year old is ready to drive a car. The average person is ready to drink at 21. In some cases this is a big mistake in others the people were probably ready at a younger age. Laura has jumped through the hoops set for her and the government feels she is ready to go. They have already stopped her for a number of months and in that time she has completed a variety of courses to enhance her nautical and mental skill set.

The argument that a teenagers brain is not fully developed yet applies on an average basis but may not apply on an individual basis. To place a numerical value on it lets say that a person's brain development falls between 1 and a 100. A responsible adult develops to lets say 50 but some make it all the way to 75 and a select few make it to 90 or above. Is it possible that someone headed for a 75 has reached 50 at the age of fifteen? I am not a psychologist but behavior of certain teenagers I know would lead me to believe that this is a valid hypothesis.

Do you really trust the government that much?
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Old 31-07-2010, 15:49   #114
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Lets go this way for a moment. I am not qualified to speak. How many solo circumnavigators endorse a 14 year old's solo circumnavigation. How many circumnavigators with crew can endorse this. As someone who has solo sailed some 12,000 miles my opinion is she may be able to sail but this is not benefitial and is reckless. My experience is limited lets here from the people who have been there.
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Old 01-08-2010, 00:12   #115
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The argument, in my view, should then be "what is an appropriate age to sail alone?". In Australia they have set that age at 16.

This is new to me, can you tell me where this bit of legislation exists?

If it true, then there are going to be a lot of sailing clubs either going broke or fined, because nearly every day I see juniors sailing in dinghies by themselves?

As for sailing offshore solo, I have always been under the impression we have not been able to stop anyone? Something about "civil rights, etc"

Laura Dekker has complied with every requirement that "her" government has asked her to do, no doubt her parents and supporters have also done everything required.

When compared to the Abby Sutherland attempt this appears for all intents and purposes are far superior and supervised event.

IT is NOT a single solo NON-STOP circumnavigation with its inherent risks, but from what is becoming obvious a well planned and thought thru affair.

Go Laura, wishing you the very best of luck.

Ken
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Old 01-08-2010, 00:55   #116
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.

The argument, in my view, should then be "what is an appropriate age to sail alone?". In Australia they have set that age at 16.

This is new to me, can you tell me where this bit of legislation exists?

If it true, then there are going to be a lot of sailing clubs either going broke or fined, because nearly every day I see juniors sailing in dinghies by themselves?

As for sailing offshore solo, I have always been under the impression we have not been able to stop anyone? Something about "civil rights, etc"

Laura Dekker has complied with every requirement that "her" government has asked her to do, no doubt her parents and supporters have also done everything required.

When compared to the Abby Sutherland attempt this appears for all intents and purposes are far superior and supervised event.

IT is NOT a single solo NON-STOP circumnavigation with its inherent risks, but from what is becoming obvious a well planned and thought thru affair.

Go Laura, wishing you the very best of luck.

Ken

Ken your getting soft, on these attempts.

It must be these balmy Tasmanian "so called" winters.
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Old 01-08-2010, 01:17   #117
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The argument, in my view, should then be "what is an appropriate age to sail alone?". In Australia they have set that age at 16.

This is new to me, can you tell me where this bit of legislation exists?

If it true, then there are going to be a lot of sailing clubs either going broke or fined, because nearly every day I see juniors sailing in dinghies by themselves?

Ken
You're quite right of course Ken. I was referring only to the size and nature of vessel usually used to sail around the world, and the licences required to operate one in Australian waters. For example, in Queensland, a person operating any vessel which has a motor of more than 6hp is required to have a recreational boat licence, for which the minimum age is 16yrs. I don't know the rules of other states but I know that most have their own licence requirements. This, for example, prevented Jessica Watson from sailing solo passages out of Queensland before she turned 16 (although I guess she could have found a big enough boat with a small enough motor if really necessary) and would also presumably provide problems for Laura Dekker too, should she arrive in Australia (or at least Qld) on her travels before she turns 16...
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Old 01-08-2010, 06:17   #118
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My daughter has indicated that being so inspired by Laura Dekker she is planning on sailing around the world alone too. In an attempt to solicit sponsers for this record breaking attempt, I have attached a recent snapshot of her practicing for the voyage in her well prepared vessel the S/V Kaka Poo Poo
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Old 01-08-2010, 06:30   #119
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My daughter has indicated that being so inspired by Laura Dekker she is planning on sailing around the world alone too. In an attempt to solicit sponsers for this record breaking attempt, I have attached a recent snapshot of her practicing for the voyage in her well prepared vessel the S/V Kaka Poo Poo
From the looks of the boat she's already got some sponsors. You're gonna need a PayPal button though.
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Old 04-08-2010, 03:03   #120
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Laura sailed of to Portugal this morning: Laura
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